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Dan18960
11-02-2006, 07:29 PM
Breaking News!

WALTHAM, Mass.—02 Nov 2006—Microsoft Corp. and Novell Inc. today announced a set of broad business and technical collaboration agreements to build, market and support a series of new solutions to make Novell and Microsoft® products work better together. The two companies also announced an agreement to provide each other’s customers with patent coverage for their respective products. These agreements will be in place until at least 2012. Under this new model, customers will realize unprecedented choice and flexibility through improved interoperability and manageability between Windows® and Linux.
“They said it couldn’t be done. This is a new model and a true evolution of our relationship that we think customers will immediately find compelling because it delivers practical value by bringing two of their most important platform investments closer together,” said Steve Ballmer, CEO of Microsoft. “We’re excited to work with Novell, whose strengths include its heritage as a mixed-source company. Resolving our patent issues enables a combined focus on virtualization and Web services management to create new opportunities for our companies and our customers.”
Under the agreement, Novell is establishing clear leadership among Linux platform and open source software providers on interoperability for mixed-source environments. As a result, Microsoft will officially recommend SUSE Linux Enterprise for customers who want Windows and Linux solutions. Additionally, Microsoft will distribute coupons for SUSE Linux Enterprise Server maintenance and support, so that customers can benefit from the use of an interoperable version of Linux with patent coverage as well as the collaborative work between the two companies.
“Too often technology companies ask their customers to adapt to them. Today we are adapting to our customers,” said Ron Hovsepian, president and CEO of Novell. “Microsoft and Novell are enabling customers to take advantage of each other’s products where it makes sense in their enterprise infrastructure. We jointly believe that our business and patent agreements make it possible to offer the highest level of interoperability with the assurance that both our companies stand behind these solutions.”
Agreement Has Broad Scope

The two companies will create a joint research facility at which Microsoft and Novell technical experts will architect and test new software solutions and work with customers and the community to build and support these technologies. The agreement between Microsoft and Novell focuses on three technical areas that provide important value and choice to the market:

Virtualization. Virtualization is one of the most important trends in the industry. Customers tell Microsoft that virtualization is one way they can consolidate and more easily manage rapidly growing server workloads and their large set of server applications. Microsoft and Novell will jointly develop a compelling virtualization offering for Linux and Windows.
Web services for managing physical and virtual servers. Web services and service-oriented architectures continue to be one of the defining ways software companies can deliver greater value to customers. Microsoft and Novell will undertake work to make it easier for customers to manage mixed Windows and SUSE Linux Enterprise environments and to make it easier for customers to federate Microsoft Active Directory® with Novell eDirectory.
Document format compatibility. Microsoft and Novell have been focusing on ways to improve interoperability between office productivity applications. The two companies will now work together on ways for OpenOffice and Microsoft Office system users to best share documents, and both will take steps to make translators available to improve interoperability between Open XML and OpenDocument formats.
“As a result of this collaboration, customers will now be able to run virtualized Linux on Windows or virtualized Windows on Linux,” said Jeff Jaffe, executive vice president and chief technology officer at Novell. “Customers continually ask us how they can consolidate servers with multiple operating systems through virtualization. By working together, Novell and Microsoft enable customers to choose the operating system that best fits their application and business needs.”
The patent cooperation agreement enables Microsoft and Novell to give customers assurance of protection against patent infringement claims. It gives customers confidence that the technologies they use and deploy in their environments are compliant with the two companies’ patents.
As part of this agreement, Microsoft will provide a covenant not to assert its patent rights against customers who have purchased SUSE Linux Enterprise Server or other covered products from Novell, and Novell will provide an identical covenant to customers who have a licensed version of Windows or other covered products from Microsoft.
“Both companies had to think creatively about how to create an intellectual property bridge between the two worlds of open source and proprietary software,” said Brad Smith, senior vice president and general counsel of Microsoft. “This bridge is built on respect for the innovations of each company and the open source community, and a passion for what we can deliver for our customers together.”
Customer and Partner Reaction

Microsoft and Novell announced the new alliance at an event attended by several customers and partners.
“We applaud Novell and Microsoft in their efforts to provide greater Windows and Linux interoperability,” said Paul Otellini, president and chief executive officer of Intel Corporation. “Customers want solutions that meet their individual needs, and higher levels of software interoperability give them the ability to more easily make the best choices.”
“Windows and Linux are extremely important to our enterprise customers and the industry, and AMD strongly supports both,” said Hector Ruiz, chairman and chief executive officer of Advanced Micro Devices. “This agreement by Novell and Microsoft helps customers bridge the gap between these platforms, giving them greater flexibility in doing what works best for them. This is a great example of vendors working together to resolve complexity so their customers don't have to.”
“This technology and business collaboration provides a model that allows Microsoft and Novell to develop new solutions to enable open source and proprietary software to work better together in a mixed-source environment,” said Shane Robison, executive vice president and chief strategy and technology officer at HP. “We applaud these two companies for doing the hard work to build a bridge between Windows and Linux”
“IBM encourages more industry endorsement of mixed-source solutions that promote open standards,” said Steve Mills, senior vice president and group executive at IBM Software. “Microsoft support for interoperability with the industry-standard OpenDocument Format is most welcome. Open documents give customers choice and help unlock broad industry creativity, allowing access to a new generation of innovative applications. Our view continues to be that interoperability and choice are key values that customers demand and deserve.”
“We are pleased to see that Novell and Microsoft have come together to address customer needs with heterogeneous operating environments,” said Kevin Kettler, CTO at Dell Inc. “As an industry leader in the IT market, we are excited to see the technology investments being made around virtualization and interoperability by both companies with this agreement.”
“SAP has been the first enterprise application vendor to run our apps on Linux, while we have more Windows-based deployments than any other platform,” said Shai Agassi, president of Product and Technology at SAP. “Today’s announcement means that customers can now choose their preferred operating system for each part of their SAP implementation with the confidence that the systems will have strong interoperability and be supported by SAP, Novell and Microsoft — both companies being strong SAP partners.”
“One of the key challenges in government is IT interoperability,” said Thomas Jarrett, secretary of the Department of Technology and CIO of the state of Delaware. “We commend Microsoft and Novell for their collaboration and their efforts to build bridges in the interoperability area, which will help government to better serve our customers, our business community and our citizens.”
Good for the Open Source Community

Novell officials noted that one of their priorities in working toward the agreement with Microsoft was making sure the agreement made sense for the open source community. As part of today’s agreement, Novell and Microsoft are announcing three important commitments. First, Microsoft will work with Novell and actively contribute to several open source software projects, including projects focused on Office file formats and Web services management. Second, Microsoft will not assert its patents against individual noncommercial open source developers. And third, Microsoft is promising not to assert its patents against individual contributors to OpenSUSE.org whose code is included in the SUSE Linux Enterprise platform, including SUSE Linux Enterprise Server and SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop.
“Today’s announcement by Microsoft and Novell marks a significant milestone in the adoption of Linux,” said Stuart Cohen, CEO of Open Source Development Labs. “By choosing a course of co-opetition, Microsoft acknowledges the critical role that open source plays today in an enterprise IT infrastructure. We appreciate the role Novell is playing to help bridge the gap between Microsoft and the open source community. We are glad to see these two companies collaborating to further diminish the legal threat posed to developers and customers by patent assertions. This is good for customer confidence in Linux, the open source community and the broader IT ecosystem.”
Additional Announcement Details

Like many commercial transactions, the financial terms of the agreement are not being disclosed at this time.
Under the technical collaboration agreement, the companies will create a joint research facility and pursue new software solutions for virtualization, management and document format compatibility. These are potentially huge markets — IDC projects the overall market for virtual machine software revenue to be more than $1.8 billion by 2009, and the overall market for distributed system management software to be $10.2 billion by 2010 — and the companies believe their investment in interoperability will make their respective products more attractive to customers.
Under the patent cooperation agreement, both companies will make upfront payments in exchange for a release from any potential liability for use of each other’s patented intellectual property, with a net balancing payment from Microsoft to Novell reflecting the larger applicable volume of Microsoft’s product shipments. Novell will also make running royalty payments based on a percentage of its revenues from open source products.
Under the business collaboration agreement, the companies will pursue a variety of joint marketing activities to promote the adoption of the technologies they are collaborating on. In addition, Microsoft will purchase a quantity of coupons from Novell that entitle the recipient to a one-year subscription for maintenance and updates to SUSE Linux Enterprise Server. Microsoft will annually make available approximately 70,000 of these coupons to customers, with a mix of priority and standard support services. By providing its customers with these coupons, Microsoft is enabling companies to benefit from the use of the new software solutions developed through the collaborative research effort, as well as a version of Linux that is covered with respect to Microsoft’s intellectual property rights.
The parties are assessing the accounting treatment for the agreements and will provide information as required in the course of their filings with the SEC.
For more information on SUSE Linux Enterprise from Novell, see http://www.novell.com/linux.
For more information on Microsoft Windows, see http://www.microsoft.com/presspass.

Freehold Fred
11-13-2006, 10:16 PM
What do you make of that? How can there be MS Office in an open source environment???

Dan18960
11-14-2006, 07:49 AM
Fred,

This was more along the lines of the NOS (Network Operating System) systems. I had the opportunity to see the live webcast of the "introduction" of the MS / Novell cooperative and it is a great move for Novell.

What has been happening in the NOS field is that many corporations are opting for a Linux NOS and are required to maintain a Windows Server just to have inter-operative applications. What MS is expanding on is that IF a Linux base business wants to incorporate a MS product, instead of forcing the business to Windows or going Open Source, MS is going to start working with them to have MS products work on the Linux platform - and in the agreement EVEN market Novell's SUSE Linux as the SUPPORTED NOS.

MS, of course, will still maintain that the world should revolve around MS, but this will let corporations again have a choice of NOS(es).

I see this as a GREAT advantage to businesses cutting costs AND still having a secure NOS server in place.

Tortanick
11-14-2006, 09:34 AM
I disagree, I disagree with that most strongly.

This will not provide anyone with support to run microsoft word from a Linux server or other microsoft applications. You should really read up on the whole thing.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061102175508403

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061103073628401

As for cutting costs, the cheapest way to run a network is still with dumb terminals. They only need a tiny bit of ram, a small graphics card and good network card. Not one fan or moving part is required. Whats more you can do this easily without microsoft. Look at Edubuntu linux, you just plug the thin clients into the server and you're done!

Dan18960
11-14-2006, 05:41 PM
I disagree, I disagree with that most strongly.

This will not provide anyone with support to run microsoft word from a Linux server or other microsoft applications. You should really read up on the whole thing.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061102175508403

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061103073628401

As for cutting costs, the cheapest way to run a network is still with dumb terminals. They only need a tiny bit of ram, a small graphics card and good network card. Not one fan or moving part is required. Whats more you can do this easily without microsoft. Look at Edubuntu linux, you just plug the thin clients into the server and you're done!

Tortanick

WELL you seem to NOT know the purpose of a Server. It is NOT to have a user typing word, running a spreadsheet, or surfing the internet.

The purpose of a Server is to route, file storage, printer management, centralized backup, and policy enforcement.

Now Windows DOES "allow" apps to run on it - but that should ONLY be done in an Application server mode and NEVER at the keyboard of the Server.

I am talking about a full server - not the peer to peer environment workstation/server.

As for "thin" clients - I have been supporting them for 15 years now (and actually was doing that in the 70's and 80's). BUT businesses have migrated to the pc environment and the thin client environment has widdled away.

After all, the cost of our terminals are about $400 - $450.00, if the client wants them to connect to a Windows server - they have to have the application terminal services licenses for them and M$ requires a volume license for each terminal license for applications to run. By the time the cost is looked at from the ROI standpoint - it is cheaper to buy a full pc and just go with user licenses (which are cheaper with MS)

What I think you are missing is that IF the client is using Novell - Microsoft WILL assist them. MS will NOT support Red Hat or any other Linux distributor. This brings together the two most powerful Corporate recognized NOS companies and gives technical support employees an additional level to assist them in ironing out incompatiabilities. That is where the true ROI is going to be seen.

I watched the webcast and along with Novell and Microsoft at the "press" release was Goldman Sachs - not exactly your mom and pop business, and they gave the thumbs up for this co-op agreement. I look at it as returning exposure to Novell and business for me ;)

Freehold Fred
11-17-2006, 06:50 PM
Dan,

Glad you're up on this. This is right up you're alley. It still is not exactly clear to me. Does this mean that I can have a Windows server and Novell clients? Does it mean that I can also have NOS server or Linux Server and Windows clients? Can't that be done already?

Take QuickBooks, which has no Linux version as we speak, how does MS-vell marriage help?

Who is the real winner? Any losers, besides Red Hat?

BTW, if you ever need thin client appliances, I highly recommend Neoware, a company in Philly. Systems are real neat, come with diskless Windows CE (as I recall) or Linux, runs umpteen gazillion emulations, flash upgrades, RS232/USB support, Internet access, English speaking support.




I look at it as returning exposure to Novell and business for me ;)

Dan18960
11-18-2006, 06:21 PM
Fred,

What this means is that companies that have been devoting their time to applications that work ONLY with M$ NOS are going to find that clients are being offerred alternatives WITH M$ "blessings".

With this co-op with Mic-vell - I expect QB, Peachtree, and others to start getting on the band wagon. Companies are going to see the ROI on Linux so much faster. The computers required to run Linux are going to have a longer lifespan, faster throughput due to the lower overhead of Linux, and the speed of applications being returned to the desktop instead of the servers.

Again, for thin clients, I have had no companies make a request for them in 4 years. They have migrated or migrating over to pcs.

Tortanick
11-18-2006, 06:41 PM
Tortanick

WELL you seem to NOT know the purpose of a Server. It is NOT to have a user typing word, running a spreadsheet, or surfing the internet.

The purpose of a Server is to route, file storage, printer management, centralized backup, and policy enforcement.

As far as I can tell from knowladge of myself and re-reading the thread that point was actually a reply to Freehold Fred, I was saying that Microsoft Office will not use useable on Desktop or Application server linux.


Glad you're up on this. This is right up you're alley. It still is not exactly clear to me. Does this mean that I can have a Windows server and Novell clients? Does it mean that I can also have NOS server or Linux Server and Windows clients? Can't that be done already?

I know Linux can authenticate against Active Domain, I don't know about the other way though. Might be possible since Linux's active Domain equivilent is LDAP and Active Domain is based on LDAP.



BTW, if you ever need thin client appliances, I highly recommend Neoware, a company in Philly. Systems are real neat, come with diskless Windows CE (as I recall) or Linux, runs umpteen gazillion emulations, flash upgrades, RS232/USB support, Internet access, English speaking support.
nah, just take old computers out of storage, remove the hard drive and make sure they support remote booting.

And dan what exactly is a Network Operating system? I looked it up but can't exactly say what one is, a server optimised OS i guess.

Dan18960
11-19-2006, 12:17 PM
As far as I can tell from knowladge of myself and re-reading the thread that point was actually a reply to Freehold Fred, I was saying that Microsoft Office will not use useable on Desktop or Application server linux.

Tortanick, the point is that NO ONE should be sitting at a Windows server running desktop applications. There is no reason to have Microsoft Office or any other Office suite installed on a server. While Microsoft ALLOWS this, it is not what a system IT manager would advise or even do.

Now there are Application Servers (Microsoft has the Terminal Services that can act as an Application Server) which IF configured properly create a Virtual machine and loads the applications ONLY at login of the Terminal services on the application server. But the applications are only used in the virtual environment not in the Network Operating System environment.



And dan what exactly is a Network Operating system? I looked it up but can't exactly say what one is, a server optimised OS i guess.

Exactly, it is an operating system that is server based and optimized for multiple access to data, sql services, email services, ftp services, web services, etc. The NOS is "usually" ran on a higher end system (HP/IBM/etc server class machines, mini mainframes, full mainframes, and blade servers). Some people will take a "common" computer and use a NOS on them, but the basic build of the chipsets in a server class is multi-tasking vs the common computer that is not geared in the main system board chipsets to accomodate the advance degree of the server class operations.

In a basic network (less than 50 users) the common machine will look and act with quite acceptable performance. Once you get to 50, 100, 1000, and up users, the common machine will choke while the server class system will show little to no depreciated performance.

While I don't have any clients with over 25 users, I "could" get away with the common class systems, but I have seen where IF I had placed a "common" system in, the client would exceed the acceptable performance level once they started to use the server. The server class adds ROI to the network and the life span of the server.

Tortanick
11-19-2006, 01:05 PM
Tortanick, the point is that NO ONE should be sitting at a Windows server running desktop applications. There is no reason to have Microsoft Office or any other Office suite installed on a server. While Microsoft ALLOWS this, it is not what a system IT manager would advise or even do.

You still don't understand what I'm talking about, Fred asked

What do you make of that? How can there be MS Office in an open source environment???

Unless I'm mistaken he is asking if it will now be possible to run Microsoft office on a Linux computer, I was replying to this question and saying no. I was not talking about running office on a Windows Server

By the way, did you read the response this got from the linux community?

Dan18960
11-19-2006, 04:43 PM
Then we are agreeing.

Fred - the answer is NO ;)

Tortanick
11-20-2006, 01:40 PM
More evidence for my "its patents" viewpoint

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/11/20/microsoft_claims_linux_code/

Tortanick
11-21-2006, 05:12 AM
Prity big update on the whole thing here
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061120203431766