MS Windows 7 (Vienna)

[jcampi]

The article at the link below provides some information about the up coming Windows 7 and a wish list of features and attributes. Like I thought - RUMORS suggest release of the new OS could be sometime in 2009. Does this mean the new OS will indeed be released in '09??? If you believe that I have a really nice bridge to sell you. Some of the suggestions on the wanted list are quite appropriate. Pricing and versions of Vista were not handled well at all. I also think an OS that is lean and less demanding on the hardware requirements would be an advantage. It'll be interesting to see how things progress with Windows 7.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2252134,00.asp

[Seth]

John,

You're well aware of my gripes against MS/Vista, but in fairness:

To create an operating system while trying to accommodate thousands of third party programs and devices is a daunting task. MS has done a great job in that department.

Window's 98 was a brilliant operating system over 95, in the same way that XP was over 98.

Imo, History will repeat. Vienna will replace Vista just like XP replaced Millennium Edition.

[Dan18960]

John fails to see the disenchantment of corporate America against Vista and their rush to beat the June 30th XP distribution deadline.

Home users alone have never and can not sustain Microsoft's corporate kingdom - it is the license agreements and assurance plans that bring in the profit for them.

Once XP distribution has been suspended (although PERSONALLY my opinion is that Microsoft has never been one to cut off their own foot and will issue another extention until Vienna is released) you will see not a trinkle down of software shipments but a deluge of cancelations.

We are now petitioning our business customers to review their computer inventory and make plans to upgrade now rather than later. Even if that means just purchasing XP upgrades for their current systems. I'm bracing for a busy spring :D

[jcampi]

Dan, I didn't tout Vista in my post or elude to any comment about the business reaction to Vista. My post was focused on Windows 7, the release date and a wish list for the next generation OS. On the business side, I am aware that our organization of about 4,500 staff is training the IT Unit on Vista usage. IT staff in my organization have told me they suspect we will move to Vista at some point. We currently use MS Office 2003 and are planning to switch over to Office 2007 in the next few weeks.

[mylanta]

Personally this is all hype and BS and I see nothing that could not be handled with the exception of a new core, by an intelligently designed Service Pack and having invested in 2 versions of Vista, I find it really annoying that they are giving up without trying as they did with Me. The thing is Me was not fixable whereas Vista most certainly is. I mean what Tweak-ui package for Vista? A reason it make a new OS is to have "Tweak-ui" in Control Panel? My goodness that is a simple 3 meg download.
Fewer versions is a reason? How about eliminating a few that are there now?
Eliminating the Uac, well that is a simple "disable". Send an email!
Better pricing? Well lower the GD prices, that has to save more money than developing a new OS we don't need!
That is one of the single stupidest articles I have ever read. And soon I will tell you what I really think (sorry for taking your words away Nick)!

[Dan18960]

Rich,

What is making you so radical :D ?

Remember Vista was NOT suppose to be based on the NTFS file system - it was to be WINFS!

Since the goal, mission, direction, and development was SUPPOSE to be dumping a file system that was/is 10 YEARS OLD - it is just a sad thing that Vista is going to be the second ME release. NTFS has been out since Windows NT 4.0 (think 1996'ish release).

Several things should be acknowledged - Vista Ultimate was suppose to get a Tweakui tools release a YEAR ago. Vaporware - it is now not even discussed on any of the sites.

The WINFS was taking too long for Microsoft to release to the market place - so just add a few modules, change the gui, and make an abortion of versions no one can understand (hmmm, confuse the public with the shell game).

So you NEVER got a NEW operating system - Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, Windows 2000 Professional, and XP were all based on the same operating system file system and Vista made the 4th revision of the SAME operating system. The only "reward" you got is bloated, bloated, bloated, and more bloated development code.

Maybe Windows 7 will be delayed appropriately, maybe Vista service packs will fix Vista anoyances (remember when XP sp 2 disabled messenger in the services area?), maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. . . . . The only thing I can think of is getting as many on XP as I can before Microsoft dumps the distribution :D

[mylanta]

Rich,

What is making you so radical :D ?

Remember Vista was NOT suppose to be based on the NTFS file system - it was to be WINFS!

Since the goal, mission, direction, and development was SUPPOSE to be dumping a file system that was/is 10 YEARS OLD - it is just a sad thing that Vista is going to be the second ME release. NTFS has been out since Windows NT 4.0 (think 1996'ish release).

Several things should be acknowledged - Vista Ultimate was suppose to get a Tweakui tools release a YEAR ago. Vaporware - it is now not even discussed on any of the sites.

The WINFS was taking too long for Microsoft to release to the market place - so just add a few modules, change the gui, and make an abortion of versions no one can understand (hmmm, confuse the public with the shell game).

So you NEVER got a NEW operating system - Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, Windows 2000 Professional, and XP were all based on the same operating system file system and Vista made the 4th revision of the SAME operating system. The only "reward" you got is bloated, bloated, bloated, and more bloated development code.

Maybe Windows 7 will be delayed appropriately, maybe Vista service packs will fix Vista anoyances (remember when XP sp 2 disabled messenger in the services area?), maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. . . . . The only thing I can think of is getting as many on XP as I can before Microsoft dumps the distribution :D


Dan,
I am tired of the BS.
What makes I guy like you that hates change, be upset you don't have a new file system? You don't even want a new OS. And why do I need a new file system? I mean we had Fat32 for about 5 years and Fat 16 how long? So what?
If I never saw a change from Ntfs, I wouldn't care because this gave us stability. We sacrificed hardware to get stability with XP and of course there had to be more with Vista, why is that so odd?

[Vivienne]

Rich:

Do you think Vista has offered something fundamentally different ? Something important that they could not have given with their SP updates ? Or is Dan right in that they made Vista just for the sake of change ?

I do not know Vista so this is just a question not an opinion.

Vivienne

p.s. When you speak of Windows 7, is that the same as when you speak of "Vienna" ?

[mylanta]

Rich:

Do you think Vista has offered something fundamentally different ? Something important that they could not have given with their SP updates ? Or is Dan right in that they made Vista just for the sake of change ?

I do not know Vista so this is just a question not an opinion.

Vivienne

p.s. When you speak of Windows 7, is that the same as when you speak of "Vienna" ?

Viv,
In all too many posts here this month, I have felt that Vista offers a lot that is different, though I am not certain that XP could not have offerred the same thing with resourceful service packs.

[Vivienne]

Rich:

Viv,
In all too many posts here this month, I have felt that Vista offers a lot that is different, though I am not certain that XP could not have offerred the same thing with resourceful service packs.

That is sort of the impression that I got from all the posts - Vista is XP tweaked. :-)

Vivienne

[mylanta]

Rich:



That is sort of the impression that I got from all the posts - Vista is XP tweaked. :-)

Vivienne


Viv,
It would be much easier for you to grasp what Vista is like, by trying a pc with it on it because to call Vista "Tweaked XP" would be quite wrong I'm afraid and I don't see it as that at all, but what I was suggesting was that XP could well have accommodated most of the changes we have been writing about, but I am not so sure how easy that would be. I.E. the Vista graphics viewer is very different from the Windows XP Viewer but I think that it could have been added to XP. However I am not sure that native dvd burning could be added to XP as I don't know enough about it.
Vista has better speech recognition software than any 3rd party program out there. XP had "mickey mouse speech recognition software. Could that have been upgraded? I doubt it. The Aero graphics cannot work without Dx10, yet Dx10 cannot exist in XP so again I don't really know if that could be made to work there either. It's great to have built in performance diagnostics, ram tester, improved easy network setup, and so many other new features.

[kelly]

I have a cheap HP Vista machine and I like it more each time I use it. Love that Sidebar! How about the multimedia integration? Pretty nice.

If you're a user who is only interested in performance, this is not the OS for you. Such a person would do better using DOS. If you want a nice friendly, computing experience rivaling that of Mac OS, then try Vista.

just my $0.02

[Vivienne]

Rich and Tony:

You both have highlighted nice Vista features. When I first heard of Vista I was so eager to get it because MS said that turning on and off the computer is so fast - like turning on and off lights but that isn't really the case, I don't think. Anyway, I now have an HP Vista CD - it is the operating system not a recovery CD. You install it as you would install Vista. Could I put that on a VM program and try it out ?

Is Windows7 the same as Vienna ?

Thanks

Vivienne

[mylanta]

Rich and Tony:

You both have highlighted nice Vista features. When I first heard of Vista I was so eager to get it because MS said that turning on and off the computer is so fast - like turning on and off lights but that isn't really the case, I don't think. Anyway, I now have an HP Vista CD - it is the operating system not a recovery CD. You install it as you would install Vista. Could I put that on a VM program and try it out ?

Is Windows7 the same as Vienna ?

Thanks

Vivienne

Yes Windows 7 had an earlier name of Vienna. I think you might have a problem in I would bet only one of those OS be it Vista or XP will activate at the same time. That is how Ms handles 64 bit and 32 bit Ultimate in the same box. And I am not even sure other than a Ms copy of Windows will work that way anyway.

[Vivienne]

Rich:

Look at what I found :

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c2c27337-d4d1-4b9b-926d-86493c7da1aa&displaylang=en

It's a 30 day evaluation on a VM. As soon as I have some time I am going to figure out how to do this and try Vista out.

Vivienne

[mylanta]

That would work....wouldn't it be easier to simply put a second hard drive in and install to that?

[kelly]

In my experience Vista doesn't shine when it comes to startup time. My thought is that you start up the computer, let it load the OS and get a cup of coffee. In other words, the issue of start up or shut down doesn't count in my OS experience. Just let it happen and the enjoy. Do something else while its starting.

OK - that said, I will contribute that one of my clients was so unimpressed with the way Windows went to sleep and recovered that he ended up with a Mac. I don't know why, but going into sleep and waking up on a Mac is so much faster than with a Windows machine.

[jcampi]

I think you are being very general saying there are issues the way Vista goes to sleep and wakes. This may depend on the hardware setup and other factors on the Vista machine. My pc build and laptop with Vista both go to sleep within seconds and wake in only a few seconds. I don't know how a Mac sleeps and wakes, but it can't possibly be much faster than a Vista pc that is optimized. I sense some of this is mere perception. I wonder some time that many of those that make negative comments about Vista aren't even using it or haven't used it for a significant period of time. Thus, how can you really comment objectively about Vista without having used it for at least a month?? I used XP for years and still use it daily. If I had a choice I'd opt for Vista. The features, graphics, options, stability and overall experience just adds to the great OS offered by XP.

[kelly]

I don't know how a Mac sleeps and wakes, but it can't possibly be much faster than a Vista pc that is optimized.

I think the Mac is much faster at going to sleep and waking up - this is why one of my clients switched to Mac. Take in mind that he operates in a Windows environment and his IT folks fight him all the time. In the matter of recovering from sleep, the Mac is faser - and it's working for him.

[Vivienne]

Rich:

That would work....wouldn't it be easier to simply put a second hard drive in and install to that?

I already have two drives. It's just to try anyway. I do not intend to buy Vista as XP Pro works well for me and I have a lot of software that I would prefer to not have to upgrade. I intend to try out Linux as well on the VM.

If I do like Vista, then maybe I'll consider Windows 7 next year. :-)

Vivienne

[jcampi]

Kelly, I have to disagree with you. How do you base your opinion on how quick Vista goes to sleep and wakes? On three computers I use with Vista the pc goes to sleep in about a second. They computers wake in about two seconds. It the Mac quicker than this reaction?
Vivienne, I think it's a misconception that you'd have to purchase a lot of new software if you use Vista. Nearly every program I used with XP is able to be installed and run on Vista. There are some very few programs that do require an upgrade, but they are few and far in between.
I think this is part of the bad rap Vista gets by certain ill conceived perceptions and rumors. For those making judgments about Vista I'm a little curious how much exposure they have had to the OS. I really think you need to have used Vista for at least a month or more to make a good assessment of it.

[mylanta]

Rich:



I already have two drives. It's just to try anyway. I do not intend to buy Vista as XP Pro works well for me and I have a lot of software that I would prefer to not have to upgrade. I intend to try out Linux as well on the VM.

If I do like Vista, then maybe I'll consider Windows 7 next year. :-)

Vivienne


Viv,
By far the easiest way to try out Linux is live-cd using Puppy Linux...no need to install anything and it saves to a folder whatever you do when you are on.
The problem with installing Vista is uninstalling Vista and it is so much easier to reformat a drive then to uninstall Vista and then VM and besides that program isn't cheap either.

[mylanta]

Kelly, I have to disagree with you. How do you base your opinion on how quick Vista goes to sleep and wakes? On three computers I use with Vista the pc goes to sleep in about a second. They computers wake in about two seconds. It the Mac quicker than this reaction?
Vivienne, I think it's a misconception that you'd have to purchase a lot of new software if you use Vista. Nearly every program I used with XP is able to be installed and run on Vista. There are some very few programs that do require an upgrade, but they are few and far in between.
I think this is part of the bad rap Vista gets by certain ill conceived perceptions and rumors. For those making judgments about Vista I'm a little curious how much exposure they have had to the OS. I really think you need to have used Vista for at least a month or more to make a good assessment of it.

Yeah John is right. With the exception of prior to Acronis 10.0 Home and 9.1 any other versions, Disk Director 10 and Partition Magic any version, I lost 0 programs to Vista on 2 pc's.

[steveie85]

Most programs that aren't compatible in Vista require a simple small download from the makers website. Couple minutes and its ready to go. I prefer Vista over XP. I was hesitant at first but quickly grew to like it.

Also a rumor I heard from Microsoft and this came from a source inside of Microsoft is that Vienna was the early name and that they had changed to Aquris or Acuris something along those lines. Just a rumor, that could have changed.

[jcampi]

I have actually only experienced a very few programs that won't run on Vista. I haven't needed to add an update or patch to any file to run it on Vista. I really think there is a misconception that many programs won't run on Vista. I have even had luck running some very old programs on Vista without issue.

[steveie85]

I have had one or 2 where there was a patch if it didn't work but the programs did work without the patch. It is nice to see that these companies are aware that there is the possibility that the program might not work like it should.

[Vivienne]

Rich:

Viv,
By far the easiest way to try out Linux is live-cd using Puppy Linux...no need to install anything and it saves to a folder whatever you do when you are on.


That's great.



and then VM and besides that program isn't cheap either.

And here I thought it was a free program!

I think my strategy should be just to stick with XP until a compelling reason surfaces to switch to Vista.

Thanks!

Vivienne