Software learning issue

[mikehende]

I have covered the Hardware side of the A+ course and am now entering the OS studies, I am wondering if it may be best to read through the entire OS course which will take another month or so or if I should start doing the Physical experiments right now and learn as I go along? For example, my idea right now is to use my test pc to clean viruses, work on the Registry and do Networking but I am wondering if I may be getting ahead of myself here by doing this?

I remember taking 2 old Dell PII's non-working pc's a month ago and making just 1 from the two which my cousin is now using, I don't know if you guys will believe this but it took me 1-2 weeks to work on those pc's as I encountered problems after problems trying to get it right, got help from a lot of the many forums I subscribe to and finally was able to sucessfully complete it, thing is, I learned in that 2 weeks more than I had learned from course studies in a YEAR!! I encountered all kinds of problems that had me doing research on stuff I had not studied before some of which wasn't in my course.

So I am thinking of going that route again with the OS thing and "learn as I go along" but what do you guys think? One problem I have had with this is coming across just one or two guys on forums who got impatient with me telling me I am "putting the cart before the horse" so I do not wish to do this and ask for help here if you guys should think that I am not ready for this, your thoughts please? Thanks.

[dbarrow]

Course... what course?
Most of these "courses" are limited in scope, out of date, and don't tell you half the things you need to know.
Finding problems and fixing them has always proven the best computer education I ever found.
Problem solving often forces you to research heavily and travel down threads to many areas of other information.
In the course of those travels you pick up all kinds of things that you find yourself going back to later.

Learn the ins and outs of XP?
The best source out there is the MSKB.
Search for any specific item and find page after page of Articles and links that will take you in all directions.
I never saw any course or book that could cover as many diverse topics. I can waste a whole day just roaming around in the MSKB as you find so many interesting links to follow.

Your course of study doing that can lead you to figuring out answers that even MS does not have!
I have found many things that "can't be done" according to the experts. The beauty of programming ... there's always a zillion different ways to do something!
Never believe any 'course' that tells you there's only one approach!

One of the reasons we treasure our archives here is because we often record some of these 'can't be done" tips and tricks for future reference whenever and wherever found. You never know when you may need to revert back to one and look it up in detail.

You find more information by following various tech bbs forums than you will ever find in any book!
Keep reading and don't forget to bookmark any interesting sites.
Answers to many problems are found on bbs forums long before they are ever resolved by Tech Support.
Why do you think companies have beta testing and leak software?
They get tons of answers and fixes from hundreds of people for free! Loads of people figure out and solve problems their Tech Support people never knew existed.

[PeteF]

Learn the ins and outs of XP?
The best source out there is the MSKB.
Search for any specific item and find page after page of Articles and links that will take you in all directions.
I never saw any course or book that could cover as many diverse topics.


I totally agree with Doug's entire post but let me focus upon the above
points. First define what your goal is as far as finding work is concerned.
Do you need to pass an interview process or do you need cerifications
to get the job? Are you working for yourself or for people who don't
know or care about certifications?

I feel that taking courses that focus upon passing tests tend to be
good for getting certified or a certificates that basically tells other
people you had specific training. It's more theoretical than practical
because you can pass a test and then forget a good portion of
what you learned because you never actually applied it. However,
I've seen some people do well with this approach when their goal
was to land a particular job or get a promotion by having all sorts
of certifications.

On the other hand, if you just want to get right to it and start
fixing or building computers, I recommend buying various books that
will guide you while you actually work on the hardware & software.
Many times a well written book will lead you to the answer faster
than an Internet search just by using the Table of Contents or the
Index. However, that's mostly for general type issues.

Problems related to bugs in Windows or issues with specific
hardware or software can only be found using Internet searches.

I'd say you need both. Books for general info and Interent for
specific issues. You also have to be a self-starter with the ability
to teach yourself using all the resources at hand. Servicing
computers means constant change and constant learning.

A structured course mainly provides a general education to get
you started. Work experience is where you really learn.

Anyway you go, it will take years to become proficient, so
the sooner you begin with hands on studies the better off
you will be.

---pete---

[Dan18960]

Mike,

Doug and Pete are both right and WRONG.

First off, Doug is correct - you will NOT get what you need today from a book written 2 years ago and published this year. Remember authors go through MONTHS of writing, editing, rewriting, reviews, and rewriting again before the book even gets to the printers. So what the real world exposes you to is light years ahead of what you reading today.

Pete is also in the same boat as Doug. Advice is freely given here as to what can guide you to solving a problem TODAY - but as for the foundation of what you need to have to be a problem solvers starts with knowing the history of where you are going.

One thing you have to define is where are you looking to be employed? Human Resource departments have NO idea about what a technical person does or doesn't do. Thus, they look to college, certifications, and YEARS of experience when a product may only be out MONTHS. After all, how could anyone today have years of experience with Vista when the "real" product hasn't even been released yet? ? ? But the HR departments will put out dumb qualifications just the same.

A small shop will not be able to pay what a large corporation might be able to afford - but the small shop will expose you to volumes of experiences day in and day out. The large corporation will be years behind in techology but the small shop will be selling the latest and greatest.

The large corporation can have benefits to reimburse you for tests, certifications, and continuing education. The small shop may only be able to reimburse you for tests you pass if that. Your commitment in advancing yourself is an asset for both companies - but the recognition varies greatly.

Are you going to get rich working in this field - well maybe if you find a niche market, have the patents for a specific piece of hardware that is required for the clients, or you are Michael Dell!

Are you ever going to be clear of learning - this is NOT a field that you learn how to build a wigget and report to work each day. What we knew 5 months ago may or may not be applicable today. Most of us worked in Windows 95 (I started in DOS 3.1) and what we did then is only a memory.

Are you "business" enough to charge your friends? ? ? Friends and families are always going to be coming to you with their computers, software, and questions about how things need to be fixed. They think you are just PLAYING with computers - after all, aren't they just things to play games on? ? ? ?

So, before we can advise you which path to take - we need to know what road you wish to travel.:)

[mikehende]

Ok guys, let me see if I can put things in perspective here, what I would really like is to work from home doing some sort of pc or internet work but all of the research I have done on this tells me that there just aren't Telecommuting jobs available like this and that I would have to be working for a company for a number of years before being given the chance to work from home so I guess I have to be prepared to work for a Company in the pc field and in order to do so, a lot of companies will only hire you if you have certain certificates. I am planning on doing the A+, Network+, Server+ and security + and also the Microsoft Help Desk course just to have a good background and aslo better my chances of getting steady employment in the pc field. I may do some pc related jobs on the side to get some extra income outside of the 40hour job.

I do realize the the A+ courses I have on both cd and Books are outdated but I am studying them right now to get basic and general knowledge. I am thinking of getting either of these or both:

http://www.globalitcert.com/index.htm

http://www.staffkit.com/learn/pkg_tech.htm

With the first, I like the practice test approach and they are "constantly updating" the tests, with the second, I like the fact that this meets the Comptia's requirements so I will know for sure that I am studying the appropriate and correct things, also I like having the piece of mind knowing that help from experts is always there immediately when I need it and so I won't have to wait for weeks to get answers to my questions as I don't always get help for everything from the many forums I participate in.

I would appreciate very much if all of you guys can blast away at those 2 links telling me why you think I should NOT get any of those two please, this will be a big help, thanks.

p.s. Any other opinions with anything else will also be appreciated.

[dbarrow]

If anything, I would specialize in security and network security fields. That's where the money, and need is right now. As the threat levels rise, more and more small to mid-size companies are hiring new IT staff or hiring their security out to firms that specialize in it. They are finding they can't afford to get by with an old and stale IT staff that isn't up to current needs.
Anything in the health related fields offers opportunity as they are under many security requirements not found elsewhere.

[dbarrow]

Staffkit looks interesting ... but at that price, I wonder how in depth and current their offerings are. They may prove to be very basic.

It's been a while so I can't tell you where I read the articles, but I recall reading several blurbs about companies that specialize in IT security and how they have more business than they can handle and can't hire qualfied people fast enough.

Make no mistakes ... the stakes are high these days and a lot of businesses are scrambling to update their outdated security ... and paying big bucks to do it!

I work for a large hospital system. Over the last year, they have made a major investment in a "paperless" system.
My department goes online 4/1 with a paperless system.
It took the likes of IBM and Siemens to set up their system.
Because of HIPPA regulations, it has to be secure.

I can flat out tell you our IT Dept. is a bunch of morons.
If you watch the Ask.com commercial where they are all made up like apes pounding on computer keyboards ... that's our IT Dept.
My home network is ten times more secure than theirs!

Now that they are under pressure, I see a whole pile of job openings in IT listed.

[mikehende]

Yes, I have been told by many before that Networking and Security is the way to go and I intend on going that route. When it comes to courses, I also have these 2 in mind

http://www.netwind.com/html/a__certification_training.html

http://www.preplogic.com/products/video/view-video-training.asp?campaignid=oppsrs24certcities160X600

As you all can see, it gets more expensive with better courses so it all comes back to dollars. I am thinking that the second option listed above may be the best way to go becuase it is the closest thing to being in a classroom?

[dbarrow]

MCSE is a basic requirement for most IT jobs.
Many places offer it. Just be sure to take the most current available. Some are years outdated. SQL and MS Server 2003 are current now with many businesses converting to them. Watch where you spend your money! Some of these "schools" are a rip off. Get the books and see if you can fathom this before investing heavily in the courses.

Have you gone through the MS site for all the courses and requirements? There is a ton of information there.

[mikehende]

Deciding how and what to study is a real pain in itself, right now my plan is to finish the Book [Michael Meyers 4th Edition], then purchase the Testing course in one of my links above and if I should do real good with that I will attempt the exam, if not, only then will I consider taking one of the courses from one of those internet schools.

I wish I could have done this in a school locally here but I simply don't have the cash for it, got the time but not the cash and I don't wish to end up like a lot of guys I've spoken to who chose not to enroll in an official course and only studied from a "book" like mine and ended up failing the tests multiple times and especially since these exams are expensive [$300 a pop] I can't afford to fail not even the first time so before I should write the A+ I would want to be very confident that I am ready for it so whatever it takes for me to reach that point of confidence, that's what I'll do. I will be doing lots of the hands on physical stuff in the meantime, it's only the theorectial stuff I want to be certain of, if the exam was such that they give you a pc to fix I would have a much better confidence level but that's not the case unfortunately.

[Dan18960]

Mike,

From the voice of experience - DON'T work on the physical stuff if you want to pass the tests. I have taken several of the tests but because I KNOW what does work and not what the exam wants as an answer I tend to score low.

For example:

Microsoft tends to lean it's exams along a global scenario of a location in Paris, London, New York, and San Francisco - but in the everyday life of a Network Engineer you are ONLY working on a small scale of a single server or two, setting up printers, and adding users. Maybe setting up Exchange server and managing spam on it. But only a very few MCSE's are worried about a server forrest that populates across several cities let alone the country or globe. BUT you need to have that study regiment to pass the exams.

Another issue is the security that Doug speaks about. There is Cisco certification, SonicWall certification, remote management, vpn configurations, and monitoring workstations. Now the nice thing about remote management is that it usually can be home based if you have a decent broadband connection and have setup your routers for vpn and servers correctly.

Just last night I configured a new server with antivirus, backup, and verified that all was running from the comfort of my home office with a soda, tv, and cigarettes. I don't have to worry about a non-smoking environment since the environment is my own home.

This is not a simple one layer field to get into. The "older" generation always refer to "us" techs as PLAYING with computers! But a construction worker WORKS for a living LMAO.

[mikehende]

Ayyy, the headaches continue, you're the second person to advise me of this issue Dan [appreciate it] but look at this from my point of view, I have 99% of all techs I speak to preaching hands on and 1% telling me the opposite, I do understand the difference here, the hands on will give me faster and more knowledge when it comes to fixing and troubleshooting pc's BUT for the exam purposes I will need to learn only what's coming on the exam. One Tech in particular who had failed the exam multiple times told me that he took the exam the first time only when he got to the stage that he could fix or troubleshoot anything dealing with pc's so the exam should have been a breeze but since he learnt his stuff more with the hands on approach he got done in by this.

He then started over trying to follow the "Book" and getting practice tests but becuase he already had things embedded in his mind finding shortcuts and alternate ways to do stuff that was not covered in the books, he had a very hard time trying to learn the new ways of the book so he failed 4 times before passing. Now just becuase the hands on approach backfired for him where the exam was concerned, it does not mean that it will be the same for others, after all, MOST Techs I know who are certified followed the hands on and passed their exam the first time.

Where I am concerned, I am trying to juggle BOTH which is why I had set about trying to find the right course and method of study "for me" from the beginning. Make no mistake about it, as I have said in one of my threads/posts on this forum before, I will only attempt the exam after being comfortable and confident that I am ready for it and I will know this by how I am able to do in the simulated tests from one of the links I had posted so to sum this up I think it was great that you have reminded me of the importance of placing emphasis on the testing routine and not lose track of it when incorporating the hands on stuff. Like I said, I will have to do a balancing act with this whole thing.

Anyone else care to comment on this very important topic PLEASE? [Sorry for the caps, I tend to get excited when a topic gets very interesting].:)

I am thinkin

[Dan18960]

Mike,

"Most of the techs" you know who passed the exams with ease in a "hands-on" environment are either pulling your leg, only did the practices in the books to fix computers, or are REALLY lucky guessers in exams.

I can be added to your "failure" friend. I have been working in the field since 1984 (WELL before exam certifications were even thought of) and have had experience with many techs over the years.

One thing that has always been consistent is - study, take exam, and then apply your "craft". The MCSE who works as a sub for me even says that he is glad he NEVER worked at the technical end before taking his exams. He realized after the first week that exams are no where near the real world hands on.

But it is your money, your time, and your career.

One of these days I will get out of the day to day, get a book on the newest, latest, next to come something or other and be able to read and not be distracted from what I know vs what I am told to pass my exams. But until that day - I will have to go un"certified" and just have happy clients.:)

[mikehende]

Mike,
One thing that has always been consistent is - study, take exam, and then apply your "craft". .:)


Makes sense to me Dan but from my own personal experience, I have found that getting the hands on "first" works better becuase it makes things easier for me to understand and remember in the book as I will be reading stuff I am familiar with, as one example, I looked at a Motherboard carefull before reading up on it in the study course, when I came upon every different component of the MB in the book, I would immediately visualize the component and this made it a whole lot easier for me understand and remember what they are talking about.

Also, I have to wonder "how" they teach the stuff in pc school? You have brought up some very interesting issues here Dan and there is a lot for me to consider, I will do some more research into this and get back to you but please keep commenting if you wish, also anyone else, thanks.

[PeteF]

Also, I have to wonder "how" they teach the stuff in pc school? You have brought up some very interesting issues here Dan and there is a lot for me to consider, I will do some more research into this and get back to you but please keep commenting if you wish, also anyone else, thanks.

Mike, if you read between the lines in Dan's comments it basicaly says
you will have an easier time passing the exams if you just study the books
and keep your focus there until you pass the exam. What you are paying
for in a course like that is more the certificate or certification as opposed
to the ability to actually fix computers.

I agree with what Dan is saying as he opened my eyes to a few things too.
I was never a big fan of all those expensive certification courses becasue
my personal goal is to work for myself and certifications are about useless
to me except for maybe some marketing purposes.

As I said before, define your goal and take the best approach. If your goal
is to get those certs then do as Dan is suggesting and don't worry so much
about the hands on stuff. Just don't get tricked into thinking you will be
an expert or even proficient at fixing computers after taking those courses.

Now, if your goal is to become proficient at fixing computers and you don't
need any certs, the approach to learning would be totaly different and
definitely more hands on.

---pete---

[mikehende]

Aaaay, isn't there some "middle" ground here?:confused: :) :) I'll have to think on this some more.

[mikehende]

ok guys, Dan and Pete, it appears that you guys are right on the money, I have been covering the Hardware course from cd which I had purchased a while back but recently bought the Michael Meyers Book [got it last week]which I had decided upon after searching the net and reading up on the great reviews. After readind your last post here Pete and remembering what Dan was telling me I decided to look into this issue. This directly from the one of the beginning pages of the Book:

How to pass the A+ EXAM:

"The single most important aspect to remember about the A+ certification is that Comptia designed the exams to test the knowledge of a Technician with only 6 months experience-so keep it simple! The tests aren't interested in your ability to set CAS Dynamic RAM[DRAM] timings in CMOS manually or whether you can explain the difference between the Intel 440BX and i820 chipset. Don't bother with a lot of theory-the fact that you can do hex-to-binary conversions in your head won't help a bit. Think in terms of practical knowledge, read the book, take the practice tests on the CD in the back of the book, review any topics you miss and you'll pass, no problem.
It is safe to assume that it has probably been a while since you've had to take an exam? Along the same line, it is also safe to assume that it has been a while since you've had to study for an exam? If these statements are true, you are probably going to want to read the next sections. These show you a proven strategy to get you through and pass the A+ exams. Try it, it works."

So I guess this means guys, that I will have to put the experiments on hold for now, I think Dan's advice would be best here, study, take the exam and then apply it. What I will be doing from tomorow onwards is going through the book from page 1 and whatever it shows reference to I will apply it on my pc, really appreciate you guys "opening my eyes" with this as Pete put it, I will still post here whenever something confuses me [of which you all can expect that there will be plenty!!] and also whenever I have issues with my pc so I'll still be very much around, thanks a million all!!!:D

[Dan18960]

[quote=mikehende] This directly from the one of the beginning pages of the Book:

How to pass the A+ EXAM:

"The single most important aspect to remember about the A+ certification is that Comptia designed the exams to test the knowledge of a Technician with only 6 months experience-so keep it simple! The tests aren't interested in your ability to set CAS Dynamic RAM[DRAM] timings in CMOS manually or whether you can explain the difference between the Intel 440BX and i820 chipset. Don't bother with a lot of theory-the fact that you can do hex-to-binary conversions in your head won't help a bit. Think in terms of practical knowledge, read the book, take the practice tests on the CD in the back of the book, review any topics you miss and you'll pass, no problem.
It is safe to assume that it has probably been a while since you've had to take an exam? Along the same line, it is also safe to assume that it has been a while since you've had to study for an exam? If these statements are true, you are probably going to want to read the next sections. These show you a proven strategy to get you through and pass the A+ exams. Try it, it works."

[quote]

LOL - who do you think wrote the books :yo:

Only kidding - but I have and probably Pete and the others here have all read the books. Hey, they are great references - and we by no means have all the answers.

Enjoy the "rest" - you will find that we are all crazy for a specific reason COMPUTERS :brick:

[mikehende]

The main thing that depresses me with this Dan is that I had the Adrenalin flowing looking forward [eagerly] to the upcoming projects, now after making this decision to follow the book only, I have already lost that enthusiasm and this worries me because I absolutely hate "cramming", with the hands on, I would learn how to do something and remember it by repitition, now it's a whole different ballgame, oh well, like they say, nothing is worth having if it comes easy!

Anyway, so now my gameplan is to study this book from beginning to end and then purchase the "Testing" course, after that then I will attempt the exam.

[Dan18960]

You NEVER loose the "burn"! You are self-talking yourself with the wrong message.

The books and practice is the building blocks you will start your foundation on.

While "we" have not gone the cert route - don't think that we don't "listen" to the messages in the learning texts.

I have spent THOUSANDS of dollars on MCSE and CNE learning materials that are accessed repeatedly. I have test servers, test computer systems, and isolated networks that I use all the time to learn new processes, new troubleshooting tools, and management procedures. I get the TechNet Plus from Microsoft which costs $500 a year, I get the Novell Tech package also that costs $1000 a year. These include actual operating software that I can load on my systems and learn from.

Now this isn't for the desktop techs out there - but my niche is small businesses that need servers, network printers, internet access, and internal email servers running. They require FTP, Telnet, SSH, and Web access. You are not going to learn all this in the books - but they lay the foundation that you definitely need to advance to the higher levels of technical support.

Just take your time, remember you are building a foundation, and then you will have the walls, roof, windows, and doors to install. No one builds a house without having a good solid foundation to start on.

[dbarrow]

Dan is correct Mike ... you need to build your foundation but don't forget the rest of the house that goes with it.

I encounter IT people who have their MCSE and can't for the life of them figure out why the desktop they are trying to fix runs like crapola.
Many of them seem to have tunnel vision and are confined into a very narrow peephole of the system they work with.
Most can't think outside that box.

Take many of them outside of their regular work environment and they couldn't fix their friends machine if their life depended on it!

For most, their biggest enemy is not staying current with everything else going on in the computer world. They got locked into the daily grind and often lose sight of what is going on outside of it.

[mikehende]

What I am doing is taking advice from ALL of you guys here and forming my own unique plans so as NOT to end up like those guys you mentioned, I fully understand what you mean as lots of times in the past when speaking to Dell Support Tech's in particular, I often wonder how the hell they got their job? When I ask them simple questions their usual response and this is my absolute favorite:

"hold for a few minute please while I look up that information"

I don't intend on ever being like that, when and if someone should ask me basic questions about anything pc related I want to have the answer on the tip of my tongue and also I don't wish to have knowledge in one area alone. My immediate plans are to get the Certifications [A+, Network+, Server+ and Security+] and maybe Microsoft Help desk [don't remember the name of that certification], go to work for a company and do sideline jobs in my spare time fixing pc's or training people or whatever I can to make some extra cash therefore my knowledge has to be well rounded when that time comes so I will bide my time and go with the flow of the books for now but I will always go back to hands on as soon as I am done with the certifications.

[kern]

...I have been covering the Hardware course from cd which I had purchased a while back but recently bought the Michael Meyers Book [got it last week]which I had decided upon after searching the net and reading up on the great reviews.

Mike,
While some of the info covered in books may be "useless" or "outdated" as it relates to a job in IT, the reality is, most if not all of the info you need to pass the A+ cert is in Mike Meyers book. It cant hurt to tinker with a pc for a little hands on knowledge, but if you read Meyers book from cover to cover, and take notes if ya think it may help you remember, you wont have a problem passing the test the first time.

[mikehende]

Thanks Kern, that means a lot to me!!!

[mikehende]

One thing I am concerned with upon reading through the introduction last night guys, it says the the OS part of the exam covers "exclusively" win9x and 2000 and NOT xp, what's your take on this please? Has this changed to now include XP? Since my book was published in 2004 [4th Edition] I am worried that newer stuff may have been added to the exam?

[kern]

One thing I am concerned with upon reading through the introduction last night guys, it says the the OS part of the exam covers "exclusively" win9x and 2000 and NOT xp, what's your take on this please? Has this changed to now include XP? Since my book was published in 2004 [4th Edition] I am worried that newer stuff may have been added to the exam?

Mike,
There probably are questions related to XP since the latest is 5th Edition and it does cover XP. I personally would study from the latest edition, but thats your call. At the very least, pick up a copy of XP Pro and famiarize yourself with it. W2K and XP are the same "under the hood", but there are differences in the gui, and features, such as Internet Connection Firewall, and Remote Desktop.

Rob

[mikehende]

I think I will try to get the 5th edition even though I have been using XP for a few years now and have done Remote Desktop in the past but not using XP on one pc to control another, I used VNC back then to control the desktop with XP from a PDA. Recently Pete showed me how to do RA so now I can simply try the Remote desktop from mine to my wife's pc, thanks.

[dbarrow]

If you are going through a router...
#1 change the default 3389 port used by RD.
I did notice outside port pings probing that.
#2. Set up the machine to be accessed to accept RD
#3. You have to have port forwarding enabled on the router to direct the RD request to the correct machine
#4. Firewall has to have RDPclip accepted for internet and server access permissions

Worth a trip to the MSKB to read the Remote Desktop articles.

Also lookup shutdown for the cmd shutdown -r command line to force a remote restart.
Those options are not available on the Remote Desktop but should you need to force a restart, it is done via a command line. I can't recall exactly what it is right now,
run: cmd type shutdown /? and it gives you the syntax

Remote Desktop is totally kewl!

[kern]

Worth a trip to the MSKB to read the Remote Desktop articles.
Remote Desktop is totally kewl!

yep- help desk service for family and friends from the comfort of your recliner...lol

[mikehende]

Got the 5th edition last Friday, you were correct, this version has some stuff the 4th didn't have, also, the layout of some things are different and is much better. The book says that I can apply whatever it's teaching to a pc so I can do some experimenting at least. Will begin the "official" studying today and whenever something is puzzling me, I will post for help here, thanks.