Pc locking up when it gets to windows

[mikehende]

Ok guys, I am now beginning to work on the test pc but have an immediate problem which never occured before [with me]. The system is freezing when it gets to the windows screen, my wife says that she has had this problem before and thinks it might be a problem associated with the monitor's cable but I don't see how this could be as I switched to using my pc's monitor and cable and the problem it still there, can she be right in any way or how would you guys recommend I start battling this problem please? Thanks.

[dbarrow]

The Windows loading screen? With the progress bar on the bottom? And it stops moving and wont go any further?

Mouse plug!
One of my machines has always had a crappy PS2 port that constantly comes loose. If the plug isn't seated just right, it will hang on the loading screen forever.
Shutdown, reseat mouse plug, reboot.

[mikehende]

You may not believe this at all DBarrow, I had made a mistake in my eplanation, the pc boots to Desktop [sorry for the wrong explanation] and sometimes hangs there with the "Old Definition File" window in the forefront, in the background I see the Active Desktop Recovery but I can't click on anything when this happens, I am wondering if the virus program was locking up the pc? I restarted for the 10th time or so and this time I saw the Windows Update in the systray and was able to click on that and update, only then was I able to hit the Restore Active Desktop . Anyway I am presently updating the AV so that Old Definition File window should not be visible for a while to potentially lock the system?

ok, so when the virus was updated I rebooted to see what would happen and chose the "Restart" option, the pc shuts off but doesn't restart so I manually boot it and this time it hangs where you mentioned [unbelievable?] so I manually shut down again and reseat the mouse plug as you suggested then it all works fine now and restarts on it's own and goes to full Desktop and internet, learned something new here.

This test pc has windows 2000 and it does not show that it goes through POST, upon startup, I see the Dell logo, then win2k screen then desktop, is something wrong here, am I not supposed to see the POST using "any" OS?

[dbarrow]

For XP ... always turn off "reboot on all errors" option ... so you can snag any startup errors as either a BSOD with error code or stall at whatever screen.
Turn ON error reporting when troubleshooting.

Turn off Automatic Updates

Check Startup (folder and msconfig) for boot items.

With every program under the sun these days wanting to put some type of "call home for updates" function in the boot process, small wonder many machines get stuck here when that connection process fails.

If you don't have it ...
CNET/Downloads search out Mike Lin Startup Monitor.
This is a great little app that adds STARTUP to the control panel. You can click on this and see everything in STARTUP and easily turn them on or off, as well as remove and shuffle the start order.
Keep your startup lean and mean.
Turn off all automatic update functions that run at boot, except Nod32.

What you may find:
Some machines take a period of time to establish a network connection to the web. Depending on your setup, particularly with a network where it has to establish network connections first, and the speed of your modem and router ... it can take several minutes before you have internet access.

When you have these "auto-updating" programs loading in startup, many will time out if they don't get access immediately and thus hang the machine.

Another part of the grand scheme of "Safe Computing" is knowing everything in your startup, what it is, what it belongs to, and what it does.
Anything that is not necessary ... turn it off or remove it!

Auto updating can be convenient, but not when you have ten apps trying to do it all at once at the same time the machine is trying to set up the network!

Note that recently, Flash and Adobe and Acrobat reader have all added auto updates at startup.

I find these to be a MAJOR PITA!
With them running, you have to wait ten minutes to gain full functionality of your machine!

Using the Mike Lin Startup Monitor, I simply turn them off (uncheck) and leave the entries.
Once a month or so, I turn them on and reboot to let them do the check and updates then turn them off again.

There are many other options to speed Startup ... take a trip through the MSKB searching "startup" and also run a Google.
http://www.xteq.com
Get Xteq System X setup program
THIS is one great little utility with many SAFE options to tweak elements of XP/2k
It is one of the few "tuners" that are safe to use and easily view many of the hidden XP tweaks.

[mikehende]

Great stuff here, will use it soon [thanks!], going to work on the Acronis backup right now, please stay tuned.

[mikehende]

Problem, I wish to backup the entire pc and put it on a disk but I can't seem to find instructions for this, any links?

[dbarrow]

You won't get the entire pc, or even the OS onto cd.
In Acronis, choose the cd as your backup desitnation, set the SIZE of the files at 640mb (don't exceed the 650 mas of the cd as it has to write a FAT as well) There are instructions in the HELP pdf.

BEWARE: cds are not a really reliable backup medium!
You know how often you can burn a coaster making a music cd....
Backups can be just as risky. The slightest error in a set of cds (which may be 5-12) and your backup won't restore. You won't know that, even if you verify the image, until time comes to restore from it. A farkled restore will wipe out the drive and you are stuck reformatting the drive and a useless backup set.

ALWAYS have multiple backup sets!
Even as good as Acronis is....
I keep, at minimum, 3 sets, staggered intervals.
One is on the source machine
One is on a dedicated backup drive on the network storage machine.
One is in an alternate backup drive on yet another machine.

Find some space on one of the drives and make an image onto a drive other than the one you intend to restore, or, if the machine connects to another via a network connection, make a backup to that machine.
If you don't have drive space and only one drive and no network ....

Buy yourself an external USB or Firewire backup drive.
I just got one for daughter's machine at Staples ... Maxtor 200g USB 2.0 external on sale (still this week?) for $113.
Works fine!
I did have some really annoying problems with the 9.0 version but the 8.0 works fine. Driver issues...

You don't know 100% for sure if a backup image will restore until you try it....

I am still rebuilding daughter's machine after a crash.
I had a fresh Acronis image.
Acronis failed to restore to the Raid0 and trashed one of the two drives during the restore ... which ran through completely but apparantly wrote to only one drive and not the array. When it farkled that, the image which was located on a partition on the array went with it....

As that machine is not on my network... it was the only Acronis image.
I did have a full NTbackup on another drive but because of the failing mobo time clock generator (mobo out for RMA)
that backup was 3 months old. I was able to restore everything from that without much loss.

XP contains NTbackup, a Vertias derived system.
With Home, you have to install it off the XP cd.
NTbackup is a great and very good backup program .... but... it requires a bootable and functioning OS before you can restore from it. There is no "won't boot" recovery system. You have to do a fresh XP install and then restore the backups.

You also want to look at ASR (Automated System Recovery), a built-in function of XP that I have yet to see work!

BEFORE you trash the test machine....
If you intend to restore it and give it back the way it was...
Consider multiple backups with different backup systems.
TEST a restore on a small partition with a few files on it to make sure it can restore ie: when I added the external drive, I ran an Acronis backup on a partition with just a few files in it and then successfully restored from it with no problem.
The time to do this is before you trash the OS partition!

[PeteF]

Buy yourself an external USB or Firewire backup drive.
I just got one for daughter's machine at Staples ... Maxtor 200g USB 2.0 external on sale (still this week?) for $113.
Works fine!


My guess is that Mike is working with some PCs that are a few years
old. My experience with these older PCs is not good when it comes to
Acronis & external USB drives. Acronis gets so far in the backup process
and then aborts due to some kind of drive error. The Maxtor One Touch
External USB hard drive is the only one I found to be reliable but even
that one gave me troubles one time. For Mike, I'd recommend only
one solution for starters so he won't get frustrated and that is to
backup to the same drive using the secure zone or install a 2nd hard
drive internally. Guaranteed things will go so much smoother.
My best recommendation is to go with a removable hard drive tray
that acts the same as an internal slave drive.

---pete---

[mikehende]

For Mike, I'd recommend only
one solution for starters so he won't get frustrated and that is to
backup to the same drive using the secure zone or install a 2nd hard
drive internally.
---pete---

I have a spare drive around here somewhere with the same OS so why don't I replace the existing drive with that one to do my testing? I had used Laplink's pc mover last year to image a laptop's drive which I transfered to a desktop with a few minor flaws but at least I have had some experience doing this backup thing so no urgent need for me to do this right now with Acronis or anything else. Thanks for all of the info guys.

BTW, can anyone here tell me how to do "multiple" quotes please? Reason being, a lot of times when I have to respond to more than one post, like in the case here, I would have liked to quote certain things from both DBarrow's and Pete's messages, this would come in very handy.

[mikehende]

I just switched the drives and this one has win98 on it but I need to load the 98cd and it looks like the system is not recognizing the cd-rom but what is strange is that the cd-rom is listed in the Bios and in the this is the info I see on the "Advanced" screen

IDE Configuration

IDE Controller [Both]

Secondary IDE Master [SAMSUNG SC-140B-(SM)]

Type: Auto

Multi-Sector Transfers: [Disabled]
LBA Mode Control: [Disabled]
Transfer Mode: [FPIO 4 / DMA 2]
Ultra DMA [Mode 2]

I try to change the configurations here but nothing happens when I use any arrows or press any keys execpte the ESC key, if the cd-rom is listed here then I am thinking that nothing should be wrong physically with either the IDE cable or the cd-rom itself and that this should be a "software" issue? I wish to know this before having to go take out both a cd-rom and cable from my main pc to test but I will do it if you guys think that this is not a software issue, help?

[mylanta]

My guess is that Mike is working with some PCs that are a few years
old. My experience with these older PCs is not good when it comes to
Acronis & external USB drives. Acronis gets so far in the backup process
and then aborts due to some kind of drive error. The Maxtor One Touch
External USB hard drive is the only one I found to be reliable but even
that one gave me troubles one time. For Mike, I'd recommend only
one solution for starters so he won't get frustrated and that is to
backup to the same drive using the secure zone or install a 2nd hard
drive internally. Guaranteed things will go so much smoother.
My best recommendation is to go with a removable hard drive tray
that acts the same as an internal slave drive.

---pete---


Always better shot to use internal drive but as for Acronis and older systems, that makes no sense as Acronis uses a Linux window so the system on the pc should not matter as you can duplicate the same functions on the rescue cd. And also age of system as for viewing usb drive in any Windows shouldn't matter anyway.

[mylanta]

I just switched the drives and this one has win98 on it but I need to load the 98cd and it looks like the system is not recognizing the cd-rom but what is strange is that the cd-rom is listed in the Bios and in the this is the info I see on the "Advanced" screen

IDE Configuration

IDE Controller [Both]

Secondary IDE Master [SAMSUNG SC-140B-(SM)]

Type: Auto

Multi-Sector Transfers: [Disabled]
LBA Mode Control: [Disabled]
Transfer Mode: [FPIO 4 / DMA 2]
Ultra DMA [Mode 2]

I try to change the configurations here but nothing happens when I use any arrows or press any keys execpte the ESC key, if the cd-rom is listed here then I am thinking that nothing should be wrong physically with either the IDE cable or the cd-rom itself and that this should be a "software" issue? I wish to know this before having to go take out both a cd-rom and cable from my main pc to test but I will do it if you guys think that this is not a software issue, help?

Now you have lost me completely. Are you saying in Windows the cdrom doesn't show in 98 or in safe mode dos or what because in 98 safe mode wouldn't show a cdrom. Also I am wondering if you haven't got a jumper issue if you are talking about Windows viewing drive.

[mikehende]

The cdrom shows in the POST and is showing in the pc's Bios but since I changed hard drives, there is a prompt asking me for the 98cd-rom and when I place the 98cd in the cdrom it doesn't recognize the cd. I am going to switch back to the original drive to make sure that the cd-rom was working in the first place and then take it from there.

[mommalina]

BTW, can anyone here tell me how to do "multiple" quotes please?

Ctrl+C the post you want to quote.

Go to the reply you are composing.

Above, under Message, on the second line of icons, click the 4th icon from the right.

Ctrl+V the post you copied.

Violá!

Repeat each time you want to intersperse another quote.

Good luck.

Lina

[mikehende]

Thanks a lot!! Will try that in a few, right now back to the task at hand. Ok so I switched back to the original hard drive and tested the cd-rom, it is working fine and in Device Manager it shows that it is working properly and I can see the drive in My Computer as the D drive. Now, I am going to switch back to the hard drive that has the win98 loaded on it but if I should be asked to put in the win98 cd and it does not recognize the cd, what then?

[mylanta]

Ctrl+C the post you want to quote.

Go to the reply you are composing.

Above, under Message, on the second line of icons, click the 4th icon from the right.

Ctrl+V the post you copied.

Violá!

Repeat each time you want to intersperse another quote.

Good luck.

Lina



WOW this qualifies for "Tech Wannabe"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mikehende]

Didn't do anything special and it now worked on it's own, go figure. Next step is to download stuff from the porn sites to get some viruses, at least I don't have to worry about the wife getting on my case with this :D , this is all being done in the name of knowledge!

BTW, 2 questions:

1] When I had the original drive in the pc and went to Run to type in msconfig
to get to see the startup list, it says "msconfig file missing", what should I do here to:

a] Get the msconfig working again?

b] What other ways are there to get into the msconfig?

2] To embark on the virus project I will be getting into, should I use the win98 that's on this drive or should I upgrade it to win2000 on this old Dell PII pc or will it not make a difference?

[dbarrow]

I hate to tell you.....
Most of us are so far removed from '98 that we forget how to fix it anymore.
It would be totally foreign to me these days.

If you want/need us to follow along with your adventure, best to fresh install XP SP2 on it where we can promptly offer assistance.

Format the drive and do an XP install.

[mikehende]

Problem with myself installing XP is that this test pc only has 128ram, will this be enough to go to the net to download stuff? I've always been told that you need 256ram just for XP alone to function? Another issue is that what if I should come across someone's pc in the future which has either 98 or 2k? I am thinking that I will still have to know how to clean the viruses from those OS?

[mikehende]

Maybe I could look around for a forum which deals with 98 and viruses? I am thinking right now to do this, use the win 98 and learn to clean the viruses then load 2k and do the same [while finding a forum for that] then when I am doing a pc with xp I can deal with that issue here? This seems like a good solution for all of us? What do you guys think?

[mylanta]

128 is the minimum accepatable for XP and while we would recommend you to 256, 128 will suffice.

[mikehende]

Thanks for the info.

[PeteF]

Always better shot to use internal drive but as for Acronis and older systems, that makes no sense as Acronis uses a Linux window so the system on the pc should not matter as you can duplicate the same functions on the rescue cd. And also age of system as for viewing usb drive in any Windows shouldn't matter anyway.

Rich, I can't explain it, but time and time again my External USB drives
fail under Acronis during the backup process. Most times it's a PC that
is a few years old and on a USB 1.x port. On the other hand, I never
had a problem when using Acronis with an internal HD. I have 2 different
USB HD enclosures, one has a builtin PS and the other has an external
PS on the cord that plugs into the HD Enclosure. Even backing up to
DVD gave me troubles upon the Restore process so I gave up with
all the other media except for internal HDs. It was beginning to remind
me of the days with TAPE. :frusty:

---pete---

[mikehende]

Truly very sorry guys, I will have to postpone this experiment indefinitely, I apologize wholeheartedly for having wasted anyone's time here but I had to do this and made this decision only a some minutes ago, main reason being what transpired in this thread, you guys can read the last post if interested, this should explain most of it, again very sorry!

http://www.kickenhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?p=535#post535

[Dan18960]

No need to apologize Mike.

We want you to be a complete technician - then you can answer OUR QUESTIONS :help: :peep:

[kern]

>>I just switched the drives and this one has win98 on it but I need to load the 98cd and it looks like the system is not recognizing the cd-rom but what is strange is that the cd-rom is listed in the Bios and in the this is the info I see on the "Advanced" screen
...I am thinking that nothing should be wrong physically with either the IDE cable or the cd-rom itself and that this should be a "software" issue? I wish to know this before having to go take out both a cd-rom and cable from my main pc to test but I will do it if you guys think that this is not a software issue, help?

>>Didn't do anything special and it now worked on it's own, go figure. Next step is to download stuff from the porn sites to get some viruses...
BTW, 2 questions:
1] When I had the original drive in the pc and went to Run to type in msconfig
to get to see the startup list, it says "msconfig file missing", what should I do here to:
a] Get the msconfig working again?
b] What other ways are there to get into the msconfig?

2] To embark on the virus project I will be getting into, should I use the win98 that's on this drive or should I upgrade it to win2000 on this old Dell PII pc or will it not make a difference?

Mike,
Is that "W98" drive from another pc? If so, installing it into a pc with different hardware will at the very least cause the pc to become unstable. At this point your best bet is to re-install W98 over top of itself which will replace any corrupt system files.
That said, IMHO theres little value in learning or tinkering with W98- its nearly 10 years old. Your best bet is to pick up a copy of XP Pro to do all your tinkering and troubleshooting. Learning to deal with virii is ok I suppose, but I'd start by learning software, especially the ins and outs of Windows registry.

[mikehende]

Well, that was my plan kern, to learn Virus cleaning, Networking and Registry tinkering as stated in one of the other initial threads but the "A+ Test" issue is what made me abandon this project, for now.

[kern]

Well, that was my plan kern, to learn Virus cleaning, Networking and Registry tinkering as stated in one of the other initial threads but the "A+ Test" issue is what made me abandon this project, for now.

agreed....