Backup philosophy and strategy

[dbarrow]

for mikehende,

As many of our (great and fantastic) posts on the topic are currently unavailable in the Archives.... and for those of you who are new to the bbs:

The core group of our members here date back to the days of Windows 98 and the fix or restore daily Windows ME.
In those days, backups were essential requirements of life and something you couldn't survive without. Not that XP has proven foolproof, at least it is 100 X more stable!
Backups are still an essential for computing and something no one should be without ....
Sooner or later, you will sit staring at a blank monitor and a machine that won't boot! It happens to everybody eventually! We ALL have experienced our share of major "oh ****s!" on many occassions too numerous to mention.

As a group, and as individuals, our members here have tried, used, and abused just about every backup software that ever came to market or faded into obscurity. Over those years, we have all had our favorites, and not so favorites. You name them, we tried them!

One of the reasons our group (as a majority) recommend Acronis backup software is not the fact that it works as advertised, lots of sites will tell you that along with thousands of satisfied uers, it is the fact that we (this group of users) have been with Acronis from its fledgling start. Many of the current features in Acronis originated from this group and our beta testing. We still maintain a tight relationship and beta testing program with Acronis and the vast majority of our members use it and swear by it.

Having a backup and having a backup strategy are two different things!
Many people are lulled into a false sense of security thinking they have an adequate backup strategy.
Many people have never restored from a backup even if they run one.
Many people wouldn't have the slightest clue how...

Always keep in mind... backups can fail!
No matter how good the backup software, any backup can fail to restore. In most cases, you won't have any clue that your backup or image file is corrupt until the sad day when you have to rely on it to restore and find it won't!

SIZE
Size matters!
Having an image file of a 100 or 200g hd is one huge file!
It takes a long time to create and a long time to restore.
Given the vast amount of information, hardware, and all the other factors affecting a computer, the larger it is, the more possibility for error. It only takes one minor error to flub a restore!
Those people who have one massive C: drive with everything on it and rely on one big image file of C: are flirting with disaster from size and volume alone.

I subscribe to a whacko philosphy dating back to the days of '98 and ME where weekly crashes were the norm.
PARTITIONS!
Seperate your drive contents by level of importance and keep each grouping on an individual partition.
Smaller partitions are easier and faster to backup and restore.
Smaller partitions isolate one thing from another.
Should your OS get farkled, you can restore the OS partition without having to touch your PROGRAMS or DATA partitions and the odds are that they will remain intact.
The most frequent cause of a crash is your OS!
If everything else is in the same big C: partition along with the OS and your restore fails ... there goes the whole thing!

I deliberately and with purpose, isolate XP all by itself on a 10g partition. Yes, programs will insert critical data and dll files into the XP partition and there is nothing you can do about it, but, it is much easier and less risky to restore the OS partition and still have your programs and data intact than to lose everything at once.

As the OS partition is the "engine", and the most frequent source of a crash, I keep MULTIPLE backups of it in numerous places, on a staggered schedule, so I have several to choose from. This is particularly important for any infections where you may need to back up a day, a week, or further to be rid of it.
Get the OS back up and running and the rest will still be there and working! Bi-weekly full sets along with daily incremental sets are scheduled on all my machines. I also keep one monthly archive just in case I need to reach back that far.
I also rely on two different backup methods.
One is Acronis with a full image and incrementals, the other is NTbackup with staggered sets.
Should Acronis fail, and it has, I still have an alternative.

PROGRAMS

How often do you install new programs?
I install ALL programs to my G:(Programs) partition.
This is often a fight as everything wants to install in Program Files in XP, but I always choose custom install and force it to G:\Programs

Over time, you will accumulate a lot of programs that you may never be able to find again! Many of your favorite utilities and programs will vanish from the original source as companies and web sites come and go.
For anything that is a download, not something you have physical install cds for, ALWAYS keep a copy of the original download and any KEYS or license that go with it, along with any downloaded updates.
As this eats space, once again it makes sense to park it in the much larger (60g) G:\Programs partition.

If you don't do a lot of installing, a monthly backup of this partition is more than adequate. You can also run a manual backup after any new install.
Once again, MULTIPLE backups stored in different places!

DATA

You will eventually generate considerable amounts of DATA files, MP3 collection, video, Documents, databases and other "essentials" of your life that you don't want to lose.

Here again, a seperate partition for DATA is key!
Even if your OS farkles and you have to install fresh, your DATA will still be intact.

Individual need will dictate how often you need to back up your DATA sets. You may have a document or database file with frequent changes. These individual files and folders should all have their own individual backup routine based on need for keeping them up to date.

Keep in mind TWO differing strategies for critical DATA files.
IMAGE
A whole partition image file should be a regular chore but not necessarily weekly or daily.
BACKUP
A different backup software, ie: NTbackup can be used to run scheduled backups of single files and folders as often as necessary for files that change frequently. You can set this up to run hourly if you so choose.
Note: new Acronis 9.0 and 9.1 versions now have this ability!

The main premise of all this is not to be restoring one huge drive with an image that may be weeks or months old when you only need to recover one recent file!
Small individual backups based on need are much easier and more efficient to create and restore.
While you can restore individual files from a large Acronis image of a whole drive, the time it takes to create is excessive and the possibilities for corruption and error amplified.

Having many small backups running at staggered time intervals according to need is more work to set up but much less work to run and restore from.

AUTOMATE

The backup that has to be run manually is the backup that never gets done!
While some people can get religeous about running manual backups, most don't. Ask many people who have backup software when the last time they ran a backup and most won't be able to remember. They might be lucky if it was within the last six months!

Most backup software has some type of SCHEDULER.
You can set it up to run specific backup chores at specified intervals. Again, if you subscribe to the partition theory, this is done by need.
SCHEDULE your AUTOMATED backups to run at the times when the computer has the least use.
If you leave the machine up 24/7, overnight is always great.

You never have to do them!
You never see them run!
They never get in your way!

Just check once in a while and make sure they are running and have completed successfully.

If I had to run manual backups on all of my machines, I know they would never get done, never be current, and would take me all day to do! My system is completely AUTOMATED and I never have to bother with running backups. All the machines run alternating and staggered backups all by themselves, 7 days a week, and I never have to touch them.

[dbarrow]

Part 2

BACKUP MEDIA

CD
As explained to Mike in another post, cd is the LEAST reliable media for anything but a file or folder backup.
As cds have to be created in a set spanning many cds required for even a few gig partition, the potential for failure in any one of them is very high. One error on one cd in a set of twelve ... you backup set is useless!
If you can still churn out coasters making music cds, you want to entrust your system to backups on them?

DRIVES
It all depends where your OS lives!
Many backup softwares do not like to restore to the same drive where the image for that drive is stored. Some won't or can't.

Segregating partitions by what they contain gives you the option of parking a backup of that partition on another partition. This makes the backup software happy as it can restore from one partition to the other.
If your OS lives on C:, send your backup to D:
If your Programs live on G:, send your backup to C:

Most backup software, Acronis, can read multiple drives and partitions. the PROBLEM is knowing what belongs to what drive letter! XP and Linux both have a nasty habit of assigning drive letters by disk and partition when the OS is not present.
You can change drives and partition order in XP any way you want. You can put D: on disk2,partition 2.
The problem comes when you go to read that with an Acronis boot recovery cd and disk2, partition 2 is now showing as drive E: or something else.
Size matters!
To avoid this confusion, and possibly overwriting D: with a backup from C:, create your partitions with slightly different sizes ie: instead of breaking down a 100g drive into two equal 50g partitions, make one 52g and the other 48g so that you know that D: belongs on the 52g and not the 48g. That way, if the naming conventions don't match, you know what goes where.

NETWORK DRIVES

If you have several machines connected by a network,
you can create shared folders on another machine.
Look for someplace with extra space.
Rather than fretting how to store a backup on a smaller machine that is filled to the top already, you may have quite a few gigs open on another drive on another machine.

If you subscribe to the partition theory, it is only necessary to keep an image of the OS locally on the fuller machine. It will be small. I keep an OS partition image locally on each machine as well as on a dedicated drive on another network machine. If I can't restore from the local backup, I have reserves on the network.

One machine on the network with an extra bus is a great place to install a huge backup drive! Stick a 250g or 300g on it and feed all your backups to it.
This is also a great use for an old "retired" machine.
My old "retired" P4 would have gone to the trash years ago but it lives on quietly in the basement with a couple 120g drives strictly for backup and file storage. While it's too slow to use for anything on a daily basis, it runs just fine and perfectly fast enough for this purpose.
Rather than chuck your old machine in the trash, convert it to a file server and backup repository!

Acronis and NTbackup work just fine and dandy on a network and view the network machines as just one big file system.

Network file storage is also the answer for "OMG, the hd crapped out!"

EXTERNAL DRIVES

They have gotten bigger and cheaper!
Watch the sales and you can often buy an external for about the same price as an internal.

If you don't have a network or need portability, they are just a handy dandy thing to have.

There is much debate over Firewire vs USB 2.0.
Some have both.

I find the USB 2.0 runs almost as fast as a network drive and works fine for the intended purpose as backups don't have to be fast ... as long as they are small! Once again, back to the partition theory.

MAKE SURE IT RESTORES!

No matter what backup software you use, no matter where you store it......

A lot of people make the common mistake of buying backup software, running backups regularly, and NEVER testing to see if they RESTORE.

The time to discover this is NOT in the middle of a critical crash!

Whatever the software, create a small partition you can afford to lose and copy a few folders with some files to it.
Run a backup and then run a restore. Be sure it works without problems! You can delete and resize the partition later but this is an ESSENTIAL TASK.

Progress to restoring the OS.
This is the most likely to fail so it is imperative that you know you can successfully restore it.
Whether it is a full partition image restore or an emergency OS recover, know that it works BEFORE you have to use it!

The day WILL come when you have to!

[PeteF]

Excellent post Doug!
I have a very similar philosophy for backups. However, people reading this
thread must understand that it took me years for my computer configuration
and backup system to evolve to the point that Doug outlines here.

My suggestion to folks who want to get started with such a backup
system is to first study what is here and start with some of the basic
concepts of backing up using the single partition configuration you
currently have. For folks who don't create any substantial amount
of data and who just add a few new applications, partitioning is really
not that important. Partitioning is more beneficial to the power user
who generates lots of data and installs 15 to 50 or more applications
to their PC above what comes with it as new out of box.

It can be overwhelming to do all that Doug outlined but undersand
that none of us did it overnight . Start with the basics and work
yourself up to a level you feel suits your needs best.

Again, excellent post Doug!

---pete---

[mylanta]

Again it boils down to philosophy and mine has always embodied "KISS" application. I use one partition for everything and back it up once a week to an image file stored on another internal hard drive. I also run all current data on all pc's on a firewire hard drive, accessed by every pc. That drive backs up files and data hourly to the second internal hard drive in Unit 1.
Multiple partitions, have always led me down the road of accidental formatting where in backup software, the letters switch, and in formatting a drive, I have occasionally formatted the wrong one. Therefore I decided for me "KISS" means 1 pc one drive.....

[dbarrow]

The "accidental" format or overwrite of a partition is a real dilema!

Here is a point where I have to take my own advice and do some serious re-arranging with Partition Magic as I did exactly what I said not to and have drives split into same size partitions.

When you have to boot from anything other than the current OS, in a working form, the drive letters will shuffle and partition name lables are not visible. Without a roadmap to tell you that G: is disk 1, partition 3 ...
you are left staring at several same size 40g partitions trying to figure out where exactly G: belongs as the correct partition letters are now shuffled around and you have to pick one of several identical size partitions.

When my son builds his new machine, I intend to finally retire the old "file server" machine and condense the drives into his current machine which will get demoted. At that time, I will totally re-arrange my backup structure and adjust all my partitions as well as writing down a roadmap to tape inside the case.

Where to "park" the backups is much easier as each machine has a name folder and sub-folders for each partition and the backup name corresponds accordingly.

Breaking tasks down by partition, and sizing partitions accordingly, makes for much faster backups and restores.
As each machine containes 100g of in-use storage, one huge backup would be quite lengthy to create or restore.

Having the OS on a 10g partition by itself makes that one a ten minute backup or restore rather than several hours that it takes for my music collection.

The OS partition gets backed up twice weekly with daily incrementals that run less than ten minutes, a very frequent task.
The music partition, that actually lives on a mapped network drive on another machine, gets only monthly backup in the middle of the night when it can run for four hours undisturbed.

This may be of particular importance if you store any kind of video files with their huge gigabyte sizes. For anyone who stores something like full DVDs to their drive, not having them segregated on an individual partition could result in a C: backup that would take all day and night.
An emergency restore of that backup might require a full day or more!

As soon as you approach 40g or more, size starts to matter relative to the time it takes to backup and/or restore.
Also, the bigger the potential for a read/write error somewhere in the process that renders the backup useless.

I realize that the complicated concept of partitions and multiple automated backups is difficult to grasp for new users. Actually, the whole concept of backup is often difficult for new users period.

The problem lies in new machines coming off the shelf with 300g drives with single partitions. The new "media rich" features encourage users to load them with tons of huge files.

A new user then goes and buys backup software only to find they are running huge long backups of that single drive. Should they someday need to restore from it due to a crash, they would be faced with a very long process with a high potential to fail.

The new or average user may seldom have need to restore and never tries out the process until the fatefull day comes when they have to only to find out what they thought was backup protection does not work!

Acronis does have the Safe Zone and an OS emergency recovery system, a feature I have not fully explored yet and intend to delve into much deeper on the reconstruction of daughter's machine. That may well prove out to be very good but I have yet to try it.

This functions much the same as the old and venerable "GoBack" program where you could restore the OS on a failed boot fairly easily. That program was a true staple in the days of ME! I used to swear by that and can't tell you how many times it pulled me out of the fire!
How the newer version performs, I don't know.
The drawback to it was always the big hit it made on system performance.

Many of the newer backup softwares are including this kind of emergency recovery system but how many people are willing to risk trashing their machine just to test it out and make sure it works? It's one thing to give it a run on a bench machine but a real big gulp and hold your breath when dealing with a machine already loaded with months or years of work! I know I am beyond reluctant to do just that even with alternative backups and multiple images stored in various places. I have faced the dilema of a backup or image file that ran ok and verified but then failed to restore. You never really know until you run the restore. I was saved more than once when the local image failed but the "backup to the backup" on the network machine worked! That just increased my paranoia for having multiple copies in multiple locations.

There are two main reasons for a crash:

Real outright hard drive failure does happen, but it is about a 1% situation. Unlike Rich, who only has to look at a HD to have it die, I have replaced only two drives in ten years due to outright failure and they were both well beyond an age where it was not unexpected. They both gave appropriate warnings and symptoms before they went.

99% of the time, a crash is due to one single XP file, the %Windows\System32\Config\SYSTEM file.
This is the reg hive that contains all your configurations and settings.
Whenever you exit Windows, "Saving your settings" is when the OS writes to this file and makes modfications to reg keys on exit. Any time you install, uninstall, or modify any of your settings, Windows has to stroke in the appropriate reg keys to that file.
All it takes is an incomplete or stalled shutdown and that file gets farkled.
A reboot yields the dreaded BSOD with "the SYSTEM file is missing or corrupt"
One file, one mistake, you are screwed!

There IS a very simple and quick fix for this!
Unfortunately, unless you have done it once or twice, it may look complicated and is something the average user would never even know about.

XP keeps copies!
If you look in the Windows folder tree, you will find a \Repair folder.
It contains a COPY of each of the reg hive system files.
This refreshes every so many reboots and is usually somewhat current.

Boot from the XP install disk and enter the "R" Repair Console, logon to your Windows install.
cd %\Windows\Repair
dir
copy system %\Windows\System32\Config
overwrite? Y
reboot

This replaces the blown system file with the copy from the Repair folder and you should be back up and running.

Fault MS for a really bad design here when they built XP.
Maybe they will address this in Vista.
They had the forethought to build in a Repair that works but then fell on their faces by making it a complicated process that few know about or understand. If they had only followed up with a failed boot automated repair process, life would have been much easier!

[mylanta]

Speaking of accidental formats, I forgot to mention "Golden Rule" 2 of new installs. "Unplug every drive except the one you are going to install XP to. That does 2 things. It makes sure C is the drive of choice, and that I don't accidentally partition and format the wrong drive.

[dbarrow]

Unplugging the drives DOES make a difference!
XP has this very quirky thing about how it sees drives and partitions alternating from one to the next in the naming conventions. It will read drive0, partition 1 as C: then drive 1, partition 1 as D: and so on, alternating back and forth.

Drives me batty!

In order to FORCE a drive letter configuration for an install, you have to create partitions first, of appropriate sizes, to select the drive and partition that you want XP to land on.
Then, XP always writes the boot files to default C:

I have a real routine to go through to force XP onto E:

Partition Magic is an essential tool here, even though XP will insist on again formatting the partition for NTFS despite having already done that with PM.

[PeteF]

When you have to boot from anything other than the current OS, in a working form, the drive letters will shuffle and partition name lables are not visible. Without a roadmap to tell you that G: is disk 1, partition 3 ...
you are left staring at several same size 40g partitions trying to figure out where exactly G: belongs as the correct partition letters are now shuffled around and you have to pick one of several identical size partitions.


I name my partition volumes as follows:
Drive C
Drive D
Drive E
Drive F
Drive G

Then in my Computer it looks like this...
Drive C (c)
Drive D (d)
Drive E (e)
Drive F (f)
Drive G (g)

If the drive config changes, just the letters in the parenthases
change and you can tell what's what by the volume name.
:yo:

Holy crap! :jaw: Look at all those NEW emoticons! :rockon:

I love this new vBullletin software. :clap2:
---pete---

[dbarrow]

Again, to illustrate the OS SYSTEM file problem as the most frequent source of crashes. This is the ONE thing I have run into time and time again.

My recent adventure with daughter's machine was just such a crash.
I had been updating the machine and did a couple installs via Remote Desktop, which I can do from the comfort of home without having to drive to Phila. to keep her machine current.

Knowing full well that I had done a bunch of Windows updates and a program install that needed to be in the backup, I ran Acronis deliberately to create a fresh image.
As the changes required a reboot, and she was home with me at the time and could not execute that manually, I sent a reboot command remotely.
As soon as the machine failed to come back online in a few minutes, I knew and suspected what the problem was.

SAS, when we go to her apartment, the machine BSODS with SYSTEM file missing or corrupt. Not that I didn't expect anything else!

We were on a tight schedule that day, having gone to the Body Works exhibit at the Franklin (don't miss this!) and I was feeling terrible from the "bug" anyway and didn't want to spend time playing around.

I brought my toolbox to fix the machine, but DUMMY ME forgot to bring the SATA driver floppy!
(Note to self: make a floppy and tape it in the bottom of the machine)

I went right to the install cd and the Repair Console but without the driver, was unable to see the drive XP was on.
No problem (me thinks)! I have a fresh Acronis backup I know I just ran on it. I should have known better and just left it alone until I had the floppy!

Well, I had recently installed and run the Acronis, remotely, and had never had "hands on" experimented with a restore from it. After all, it ran just fine. I knew I had the fresh Acronis image to work with and, pressed for time, decided to go with it.

Little did I know that Acronis was going to bone me with a failed restore that ran just fine but wrote to one drive of a two drive SATA RAid0 array and farkled the array!

What should have been a simple 5 minute job turned into a major fubar with a blown Raid0 array with a drive down.

The only option was to cart the whole system home and start over from scratch as the Acronis image was on the drive that got farkled and was now gone for good.

I did have an alternative NTbackup on the C: drive.
The problem was the mobo clock generator that had crapped out months ago and the automated NTbackups had not been running as scheduled because the Time Service quit when it was out of sync with the mobo clock.

WTF, I needed to RMA the mobo anyway to get that fixed.
Problem being, the most recent NTbackups were from the end of November and I had done a lot of updating and program install since then.

I was able to restore all the partitions successfully from NTbackups after a fresh XP install and update.
Note that a fresh install from the cd requires updating to SP2 and all Windows updates since or it goes bonkers on a restore and craps out....

Once the OS was fixed, everything else followed along ok, though slightly out of date. The time clock generator was still a problem so I ripped it down and RMA'd the mobo.

As this machine is not on my network, it has to maintain its own backup system. Seeing the good sale price, I ran out and bought the external backup drive for it.

Well, let the fun and games begin!
Acronis ver 8 seems perfectly happy with it and I can run a succesful restore from Acronis images.
Version 9 and 9.1 have a driver conflict or problem with the external and just don't work.
The Dantz Restrospect software that came with the external is another nightmare that just won't seem to work.
Despite very nice people in their Tech Support... I don't have the patience to follow this software much further.

I ripped out the mobo for the RMA and sent it on its way.
Hopefully, the problem should be fixed shortly with a replacement.

As far as her machine backup strategy, I have to re-think that to include the external drive and copying Acronis images to the network remotely via my FTP server.
So far, I know Acronis server ver 8 is solid and works.
Ver 9 is going to take some more trial and error testing.

My bad for never testing out the Acronis restore after I installed it.

What should have been a 5 minute fix has turned into a month long adventure! This is still going to require further experimentation once I get the mobo back.

The worst part... stuck with daughter at home as she is taking an online course that requires compter access and I can't be rid of her until her machine gets fixed!

[PeteF]

There are two main reasons for a crash:

Real outright hard drive failure does happen, but it is about a 1% situation. Unlike Rich, who only has to look at a HD to have it die, I have replaced only two drives in ten years due to outright failure and they were both well beyond an age where it was not unexpected. They both gave appropriate warnings and symptoms before they went.


Doug, I have a track record for Hard Drive Failure similar to yours.
Only one HD crashed in the past 14 years. If I have to guess how
many HDs total that is, let me venture to guess about 15. I only
bought Micropolis SCSI drives, Western Digital and 1 or 2 Seagate.
1 Seagate failed. I'm wondering if we run under similar conditions.
For the past 14 years all my equipment runs behind a 1200 watt
BEST UPS. I never shut down my hard drives or my computers
unless I'm restarting or reconfiguring hardware. I only allow the
monitors to go into standby mode after 2 hours of non use.
I never replaced a fan either. When they begin making noise,
I simply lubricate them. I always have 2 PCs full up and running,
sometimes 3. How do you compare?

---pete---

[tonyd]

One of my customers called this morning. His machine didn't get thru a defrag. While talking with him on the phone I realized his hard drive had failed.

He has 2 identical systems. One for his use and the other for the accountant. Problem is all the QuickBooks, FileMaker, email and docs are on the machine that failed.

Fortunately, he does a tape backup weekly. Only backs up files in My Docs, QuickBooks, and email. So we were able to restore files to his other machine.
-td

[dbarrow]

Before you throw it out....
There is always a possibility that it may have enough life left for one or two sessions, long enough to copy the contents to a fresh drive.

The most common symptom is click,click,click,click.
That is the drive arm slipping, a mechanical failure and worn out part on the arm.
This is opposed to a head crash, where the arm and heads drop onto the platter and eat it like a car with a flat tire running on the rim.

If it still clicks, a few hours in the freezer may be enough to expand the faulty part enough to grab long enough to clone it off to a fresh drive.

Freeze it overnight and then stick it in another machine with a comparable size drive.
If you can access and read it, run whatever disk copy software (Acronis) you have and get what you can on the fresh drive.

[mylanta]

Well that makes no sense at all. he already has the tape backup, how much effort would it take to backup all files.
Tony why not try the freezer trick. That's where you put the drive in a Ziplock bag in the freezer for 2 hours. Then slave it to your pc and copy like hell if you can see the files as you have about 1/2 hour. Works about 1/2 the time.

[tonyd]

I already put the drive in a zip lock bag in the refridgerator for about 30 minutes. Didn't help. Maybe try the freezer - it's worked for me before.

And YES - it has the click, click, click sound - so it's probably a good canidate.

His most recent backup was a week ago. So he'll have to re-input the QuickBooks files if we don't get it off the hard drive. But hey, it might be easier to just manually redo the QuickBook entries because there weren't many.

-td

[dbarrow]

Sometimes, a good sharp rap with a block of wood is enough to get the arm back on track.
I actually took one apart once just to figure this out!
The little mechanical dohicky that engages the arm is the culprit.

Since it goes click,click, there is potential and repeated attempts may get it up just long enough.
Nudge it along with a small mallet when it starts clicking and maybe it will read. Did that before!
If it gets un-stuck.....
Besides, you can't hurt it at this point!

BTW: I would seriously recommend a better backup strategy to him now that he has the incentive, and proof of need!
Get him off the tapes and onto some additional drives, plus externals, and Acronis.
A little work and a little extra money for you!
He's probably scared you know what right now and still has them tucked up tight so he's ready to listen.

[mylanta]

I already put the drive in a zip lock bag in the refridgerator for about 30 minutes. Didn't help. Maybe try the freezer - it's worked for me before.

And YES - it has the click, click, click sound - so it's probably a good canidate.

His most recent backup was a week ago. So he'll have to re-input the QuickBooks files if we don't get it off the hard drive. But hey, it might be easier to just manually redo the QuickBook entries because there weren't many.

-td


Tony,
Not the refrigerator, it's the freezer and at least 2 hours...maybe more.

[dbarrow]

Well... when I said "That day will come" , I wasn't kidding!

This afternoon, and I just got up because I worked all night, I hear son having a major hissy fit downstairs.
Network connection is down, video waffled, sound screwy...
XP boots but somethin' ain't right!

Quick check of System\Hardware\Device Manager shows a whole bunch of stuff missing drivers....
That inspires chkdsk which promptly shows tons of lost clusters. Looking like maybe master file table got whacked.

Straight to the Acronis image and the incremental that ran yesterday morning ... skipped back a day just because I didn't know what time the error started.

Restore ran fine in 15 minutes, all back up and working, life is good. Scans all fine, had to be a disk error of some kind, and with son at the helm ... anything is possible.

It still makes you sweat bullets any time you have to do it ... but so much better than that empty gut wrenching feeling if you don't have backups!

[mylanta]

Get rid of those Maxtor hard drives, and you would barely need those backups!

[dbarrow]

I am more likely to attribute it to "operator error".
Son is one of those people who don't get along with anything electronic. The Gods of Blue Smoke frown upon him for not paying appropriate tribute. He has a nasty habit of depriving them of power by shutting off the machine when he gets PO'd and I can't break his "reboot" habit. As an Almighty Grand Wizard of the Blue Smoke, I am treated much more favorably and have a bit more patience. He likes to play the most demanding games which are great for causing lockups and errors and quick to punch the reset button (and won't admit it).
#1 cause of XP fubar: improper exit w/ bad file save

Machine is 3 yrs old and never gave me a hiccup when I was using it....

The good part is the backup strategy, which in this case worked as intended.
Having the OS on a 10g partition makes backup and restore fast and easy.
I have Acronis scheduled to run a full backup weekly to C: with daily incrementals.
Incrementals run in just a few minutes and give you a full one week date range to choose from for a restore, longer if you want to do it monthly (but I think the odds for corruption in a set that large increase incrementally).
Acronis also runs another weekly full backup to the network machine in the middle of the week. That gives me two full backups to choose from, staggered. Plus, I have a monthly set on the network machine.

Not to mention, my alternating NTbackup sets both locally and on the network machine. I'm never without a backup more than three days old.

Incrementals on the OS partition are a great thing as you don't appreciate how frequently these files change.
I had just spent a few hours on this machine the other day doing Windows Updates and a bunch of other program updates, all of which were on the incremental from yesterday so I didn't have to go back and do them over.
That was a few hours work saved!

Daily incrementals of things that are likely to change are a big factor and Acronis handles the job very well. Setting up full and incremental backup jobs with Acronis Scheduler is a breeze and as Acronis runs so nicely in the background without being obvious or intrusive, you never notice them running.

If you are only making one image file a month with Acronis, explore the use of the Scheduler to create more frequent full backups and incrementals. The time you save will be your own!

[Dan18960]

Must be something with the moon and stars :eek:

Last week I had 3 systems trash their hard drives! 2 desktops and one notebook. Well, I expected the notebook since it had been in the hands of a user that downloaded every pop-up that came along (well maybe she skipped the porn LOL).

I just blew away the notebook with a clean install and drivers - windows updates and everything was fine.

On the desktops - it was a little more harried! Anyway, attach the drives to my bench box and it does it's chkdsk and I ran a full chkdsk afterwards. Fixed the XP drive and back to the client - 1 hour and all is well. On the other drive I was running W2k Pro and I should have known better than run the intensive chkdsk from XP to W2k! Ended up building a W2k drive, loading drivers, doing updates, and then ran the chkdsk from W2k to W2k - everything looked great.

BUT (and there is always a BUT), the W2k drive was only a 10gb! I felt a drive dying was in my near future (Darn WD drives - the thing was only 6 years old it should at least last another 94 years right?). So I took an image of the drive (10g) and burned it to a younger 20gb drive. System booted up, loaded all the programs, and looked great.

Another hero momemt :rockon:

[mylanta]

It's funny for a guy who holds the national record for blown hard drives, I am approaching 3rd year status on every sata drive I purchased, with no signs of any problems yet. I mean I was blowing away at least 5-7 ide drives a year before switching to sata, and here I have only had one blow (Maxtor anyone but DB surprised?), and I sold the replacement on eBay to break the chain.And the client units I have installed sata drives on the same way as I have yet to have a problem with any of them and I really tempted faith with a few IBM/Hitachi sata Death Stars too. I mean I have no clicks, no slowness, no failed OS installs, and I really attribute that to serial hard drives which are faster, much quieter, and trouble free.
Anyone see much difference in sata II drives?

[Dan18960]

I brought my toolbox to fix the machine, but DUMMY ME forgot to bring the SATA driver floppy!
(Note to self: make a floppy and tape it in the bottom of the machine)



Rich,

Sounds like Doug should practice Dan's in the case method HUH?

Doug, if you go to Office Max - Fellowes has CD adhesive holders and Floppy adhesive holders (which will hold floppy disks and mini cds). I use these to store the hardware cds for each machine IN SIDE THE CASE. It takes the guess work out of the mbd, video, and any other drivers that are needed for a specific system.

I have found that I don't have to depend on end users having to dig through closets, storage boxes, mounds of AOL cds :eek: , or hearing that they were "weeding" out their cds and didn't think they need THOSE anymore.

You pop the case, slide out the cds you need, and away you go.:D

[mylanta]

Yep I agree Dan, would work for anyone, even if you used it to make copies and then let them lose the originals.

[dbarrow]

Backups: What You Should Know
http://www.aselabs.com/articles.php?id=198

*I think we have covered much of this ground before but, here is a rather comprehensive article

[Guest110]

How about Back up for dummies??????
The short version.. my head is spinning

[fleamailman]

dbarrow, wonderful tut and having seen the replies is there any part of it that you feel need redoing then, if you do edit it please could we see the finished copy here.

[dbarrow]

"Backup strategy" is really a complicated subject that has to be tailored to individual use and the user's needs. Difficult subject matter to discuss with people who have never even considered the need for backups.
Once they have experienced "the big one", they are much more open and receptive after they have paid the price of reconstruction.
I'm afraid there really isn't a "backup for dummies" as a comprehensive "backup strategy" has to be custom designed to accomodate the user, the machine, the importance of critical files, and available storage.

Acronis True Image (home) is one of the best backup softwares I can recommend for the "average user" but the how, when, and where still need to be setup to accomodate the individual user needs.

[dbarrow]

Just a reminder for those of you who have yet to plan out and implement your BACKUP STRATEGY... **** happens!

I've been meaning to get around to replacing the old network storage machine and finishing off son's box, all summer, and have yet to do the grand totally revamped backup strategy... You know, the crap on the to do list that you just push aside.

Well... my "reminder" hit me square between the eyes yesterday.
Needing to update something on daughter's machine, I find it hung on an Acronis backup.
Not unusual, as this has been happening for an extended time period as one of the 120g drives has had some bad sectors and Acronis can't read them so it gets stuck now and then running the backups on it.
The drive only contained about 2g of files and the remainder was slack space. I've been goosing it with a chkdsk and defrag now and then with some degree of success. The warning signs have been there long enough to ignore and replacement of the drive was relegated down on my to do list as it has been skating by.

Don't you just know... I run the chkdsk to bump it by just a little longer as I'm already intent on doing something on son's machine and really don't want to mess with it right now. Chkdsk aborts, I reboot and go look and while drive is still there, file system is gone. format fails, drive has taken a final dump. BIOS S.M.A.R.T even shows the dreaded warning "BAD ... backup and replace" on boot. Like the quick page changes flashing by on BIOS startup are something you can actually see without hitting the pause key. Catching that brief flash out of the corner of my eye, I do hit the pause and there it is and likely has been for some time.

One minor problem...
The drive just happens to be dedicated to her mission critical work and programs for her medical transcription course.
The tantrum and wailing starts immediately and even the wife gets in the act. Noise level is unbearable.

The machine was stand alone before she moved back home. I added a 200g external just for backups after the mobo malfunction and RMA last spring which actually caused her to move back home. (And you don't think computer problems can be a major headache)

A quick look at the external and I'm in luck! The image is there and the incremental ran yesterday!
Not in a mood to waste time moving things to the gobs of space on the other drives and in need of a break from the screaming, a quick run to Staples is in order. Of course, the only SATA drive on the shelf is a 200g Maxtor...
WTF ... it's late afternoon and I have to go to work. Buy it, drive home, slap it in. Ten minutes later, the files are restored, everything is working, the yelling has stopped, life is grand again.

Thanks to Acronis and a multi-location multi-copy backup
strategy, the in house IT department was able to accomplish a quick fix to a major incident that would have caused a multitude of grief with no respite until resolved.

The only real bite to the whole situation...
I'm waiting on delivery of another 200g drive ordered four days ago for the upgrade of the storage machine which will probably be sitting on the porch this afternoon....
When dealing with two screaming women, you just have to weigh your options...

[Guest110]

If i might pop a newbie at backing up..Q
what exactly do you back up..????

[dbarrow]

EVERYTHING!

The difficulty is in setting up a long term plan to cover all your needs.
What gets changed and how often?
What can you least afford to lose?
What happens if the OS crashes?
Where do you store it?
How many copies do you need?
What software do you use? (The easy answer... Acronis)
If the machine goes up in smoke tomorrow, where would you be without everything on it?

There are many answers to each of these questions and many different solutions.
Many people make the common mistake of getting some backup software and doing an occasional backup feeling they have some sort of security.
The test of that comes when **** happens!

A BACKUP STRATEGY involves a lot of planning to cover all bases and all possible contingencies.
Plan it
Set it up
Test it out

AUTOMATE it ... or it never gets done!
I continue to stress automate as the one and only time you may ever need it will be the time you have a stale and outdated backup that does not contain what you need to restore!

Having a fully automated daily incremental restored fully up to date where she left off yesterday. If not for that, the rampage may have gone on for days on end.

You may think you have nothing of importance and nothing irreplaceable on your machine...
Have someone remove and hide the power cord to it for a day and sit there staring at a blank monitor screen for a while...
You will quickly realize what needs to be backed up!

[Guest110]

The only items i would possibly miss are my mp3 and photos. and link to KH

Music is on both PCs up and down and photos are uploaded to photo albums and printed once a month

Everything else i can live wiithout.. i think
I dont use my pc for work files etc.. my son has his college work on the one upstairs but its put on disc and saved.. just in case

[dbarrow]

When it works...

Rude interruption by son having a hissy fit last night.
Check the machine and oh boy! Windows is major fubar.
I suspect major corruption in a reg hive.
Lord only knows what he does to this machine! The computer gods don't like him!

Here is where having the OS isolated to a partition comes in handy. The problem is in Windows and likely the most common one, blown or crapped reg hives.

I boot it up with the Acronis cd.
The scheduled internal backup ran that morning at 6:30.
I run restore.
It keeps crapping out at 5 seconds to go with archive corrupted.

I then go to the network storage machine where another archive exists. Restore runs much slower over a network but...
Restore completes and everything is back up and fixed.

Without that image file, this would have been a long Repair Install or wipe and load situation.

The point...
NEVER rely on one backup!
You never know when it may fail to restore even if you verify it.
Never rely on one backup with an incremental set.
While incrementals offer much broader protection and a date range, if the main file of the archive is corrupted...

MULTIPLE BACKUPS in MULTIPLE LOCATIONS
Take into account the possibility of losing the drive and the backups with it.
Keep a second backup on an external or network drive on another machine.
Isolate the OS on a partition as that is the most likely to suffer a crash and restore times are shorter.

Keeping a THIRD backup of the OS somewhere on the machine or network can come in handy.
Full weekly backups of the OS with daily incrementals is good protection but you want a second weekly alternative.
A third monthly copy is the reserve in case you have to backtrack or the other two fail for any reason.

If you have only one machine...
Internal drives are cheap these days. Invest in another drive just to store backups on or add a USB external just for backups.

If you have more than one machine and a network, consider making one of them a backup repository for all of them by adding a 200-300g drive.

Buy and use Acronis!
Of the many backup softwares I have used, Acronis is the one that works. The interface is easy. It can be completely automated. The Rescue CD you create is a full blown version of the program that will let you recover from disasters other software sometimes can't cope with.

While you are shopping at Acronis, add Disk Director to your cart!
This is another 'must have' utility!
You may not use it often but when the need arises...
The boot cd is again a full blown version of the program that lets you handle many tasks of disk management on a machine that you can't otherwise boot.

With Acronis backup software and Disk Director suite and backups on some external media, you can restore a totally wiped out machine or move your whole operation to another box.