Wiping an infected computer is best for any OS

[dbarrow]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=187

An interesting view echoing many ideas that have been expressed here before.

His points on seperating the OS from everything else follows my logic. If only MS would follow the same path!

btw: Documents and Settings\User profile CAN be moved to another location in XP, just be careful where you park it.

[mylanta]

Yeah I couldn't agree more. Lately I have been opting to not try to clean seriously infected pc's as it seems I wind up with so many hours I can't bill, and wind up eventually reforamtting anyway because of a bug I see towards the end I cannot clean.

[Terry Hanushek]

May be those techs from Dell who always recommended the 'Nuke and Pave' solution were just ahead of their time.

:rofl:

Terry

[mylanta]

May be those techs from Dell who always recommended the 'Nuke and Pave' solution were just ahead of their time.

:rofl:

Terry


There you go Indian Visionaries...

[PeteF]

Yeah I couldn't agree more. Lately I have been opting to not try to clean seriously infected pc's as it seems I wind up with so many hours I can't bill, and wind up eventually reforamtting anyway because of a bug I see towards the end I cannot clean.


Yep, same here. It's getting harder and harder to clean them.

---pete---

[mylanta]

Interesting Pete, I have another friend in the business who also came to the same conclusion. They fool you too because if we can I would rather save a system and many seem where they will be survivors. I had one yesterday that was only in use 3 months (New Dell) that cleaned up nicely so I installed new Av and anti spyware programs, all Windows Updates etc...on my bench DSL and then remembered client uses dialup. Do you think I could get modem to dialup properly> Forgetaboutit. I wound up with a "wipe and load" after wasting over 2 hours cleaning it up and duplicated every thing I had done all over again. Now shall I bill client for poor judgement on my part to try to clean badly infested pc? Can't do it in good conscience (and I have one).

[dbarrow]

What the whole thing illustrates so well ... goes back to Windows 3.1 ... and is a mistake MS made from day one that has never been fixed.

They COULD have chosen to isolate the OS on a small partition by itself where it can easily be imaged and preserved in a working state.
They SHOULD have included an emergency restore process on a hidden partition that would initiate on a failed boot.

All of this HAS been done, with third party software throughout the history of Windows in various forms.
You would have thunk the ME debacle would have shown them the light....

Why MS persists in throwing the OS on one huge drive with everything else in the world on it and then defaulting everything to install INSIDE it defies all logic. The least little error from anything you install on the machine can fubar the OS! If they really wanted to make a secure and stable OS ... why don't they choose the path demonstrated by third party software for years!

To this day, I swear my lack of difficulties with XP stems from my paranoia from WinME days of isolating the OS on a 10g partition on E: and forcing all programs to install on G:. Yes, even though it still bloats with all the stuff that gets added in via installs, image and backup are a much shorter task, as well as restore, and everything other than the OS stays intact without need of restore.

Despite a redundant double-safe method of protecting the registry with "last known good" and the "repair" folder, it is still the 90% probability that a final reg write on "saving your settings" is what blows the OS by garping the SYSTEM hive leading to a no boot problem where you are forced into some type of alternative restore process from outside a non-booting Windows.

The days of GoBack with ME made that situation a "no brainer" quick fix despite the performance hit you had to put up with on the machine. One would have thought ME and GoBack proved a point ... that obviously went over their heads.

I have never had reason to experiment with the Acronis Secure Zone and OS recovery but do intend to experiment with it when I put the mobo back in daughter's machine.
Maybe ... that is a solution.

[PeteF]

Forgetaboutit. I wound up with a "wipe and load" after wasting over 2 hours cleaning it up and duplicated every thing I had done all over again. Now shall I bill client for poor judgement on my part to try to clean badly infested pc? Can't do it in good conscience (and I have one).

Exactly right!
One thing about being in business for yourself is that you have to
"eat it" from time to time. Everyonce in a while I make a poor judgement
to "clean" as opposed to "wipe & load" so I'll have to eat most of that
that time wasted cleaning and just charge a reasonable amount of time
for "troubleshooting" plus "wipe & load" services. It's all about being
honest and giving the consumer a fair deal. :) I figure, as I get more
experienced and smarter, my own profiability will increase.

---pete---

[PeteF]

Why MS persists in throwing the OS on one huge drive with everything else in the world on it and then defaulting everything to install INSIDE it defies all logic. The least little error from anything you install on the machine can fubar the OS! If they really wanted to make a secure and stable OS ... why don't they choose the path demonstrated by third party software for years!


One reason might be for protection against piracy. By making the registry
so complex, mysterious, and interwoven with installed applications, it provides
so many ways for developers hide their anti-piracy schemes. For instance,
to install an application such that you can't simply uninstall a trial version
and reinstall to get another free trial period.

An OS that offers such protection to developers is going to attract
more developement to that OS and the buying public people like to go
with the OS that offers the most applications to choose from.
So it's kind of a partnership between developers & MS.

I hate online product activation schemes, but maybe that is one
real solution to the piracy problem that would finally alllow the OS
to be isolated from the applications & the data.

---pete---

[mylanta]

I noted recently an "evil" side to activation and because of it, I will from hereon not only avoid that product, I will avoid anything from that manufacturer, and mosty likely anyone who uses it.
Paperport 10 started with activation. As it happened I did 3 reformats on my main machine due to install errors, not realizing I used up 3 activations by doing so. 2 more a while later used them all up so I called when I finally sold that "doggy" pc I went to install Paperport on new replacment pc and could not. When I called, they refused to activate it, claimed I had to buy a new license. I read the eula which mentions nothing about this policy, and neither did the site anywhere.
So I made a complaint to the Pa Atty General who could do nothing but referred it to Massachusetts Atty General where Scansoft resides and after telling me to "pound sand" several times, they called all apologetic and agreed to add 3 more activations. Then I sold it on eBay with the statement it has 3 activations. And I will use Acrobat which I own anyway!

[dale@fcg]

my lack of difficulties with XP stems from my paranoia from WinME days of isolating the OS on a 10g partition on E: and forcing all programs to install on G:. Yes, even though it still bloats with all the stuff that gets added in via installs, image and backup are a much shorter task, as well as restore, and everything other than the OS stays intact without need of restore.


Doug,
Could you please explain this, as I am under the delusion that the OS and all programs need to be installed to the C: drive to work properly?

Also, why the OS on E: and not on C:

I'm assuming that you mean to partition the HD before installing OS. Can that be done with XP install CD during installation? I also assume the HD can be formatted with Acronis's utility or Partition Magic on a separate PC prior to moving it into the new pc and using it as you main drive.

[mylanta]

Dale,
To many, the philosophy of installing only OS in it's own partition and then the files and programs on another. That way when you have a screwed up OS, you only have to reinstall the OS and not every program and you can install any program to any drive, just choose "custom" rather than typical and select where you want to install the program.
Personally I find that really confusing and especially in making backups and I like the KISS philosophy which allows me one drive as all I need to handle.

[dale@fcg]

but why does Doug install the os to E: instead of C: ?

[dbarrow]

Why E:?
Naming conventions in XP.
When you install XP, you can install it to any partition you like. The problem lies with the way XP alternates what letter it assigns to the partition. XP alternates, drive0 partition0 is C:, drive1 partition0 is D:, drive 0 partition1 is E:, etc. ect.

Now, if you have multiple drives and partitions, or a Raid array, and you don't want XP on C:, you have to choose where it will end up by creating the right number of partitions on the various drives before installing, particularly if you want XP living on its own 10g partition.

Due to the naming convention sequence, and one of my earlier machines, I needed to force XP onto a raid array on a 10g partition which happened to end up as E:
(since then, I have found an easier method)
XP won't let you change the drive letter of the OS drive once installed as all registry keys relating to the OS now reference that letter.

Since all my machines following that build are clones, and since I like to have everything identical on all of them, I have followed forcing them all into similar configuration.
C: is an IDE drive, mostly storage on IDE bus 1 with the CD/DVD on bus 2, or on this machine slave on bus1
D: is my Games drive
E: is my OS drive
G: is my Programs drive
P: is my Page File drive
Various drive letters for other storage partitions and mapped network drives follow.
I know that's a little whacky but I have my reasons...

I still swear, to this day, one major reason for a lack of invasion, virus, trojan, etc. (besides all the other defenses) is the fact the OS lives on an odd drive letter.
Despite how clever some of these demons are, most are written to find the OS on default C: where the majority of the world keeps it. Can't find the OS, can't invade!
Maybe wishful thinking or maybe fact ... I don't know, but it works for me!

[dbarrow]

Ego and computer maintenance don't mix
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=189

An interesting followup to the original ... READ

I particularly like his idea of keeping the user information
(\Documents and Settings\User\) on another partition so if you do have to restore the OS, the USER data remains current.
This CAN be done in XP by moving that folder.
Once you park your settings elsewhere, it is a very small and quick backup on that and you can easily keep it up to date and current.

At one time, we were into Sims2.
The game insists on storing all the saves in the User\Local Settings folder along with any custom additions.
This started eating considerable space on the OS partition so I moved it.
As the game would frequently farkle a save, I set up an NTbackup that would run several times daily.
The backup would only run for a minute or so at most and encompassed my entire user profile.
The files are not big enough to warrant a dedicated partition, as he suggests, but I can really see doing that and setting something like that up for the user who routinely farkles their machine and OS.
The whole concept makes perfect sense to me!
But, as the author states, it is thick as mud to the folks at MS!!!!

[PeteF]

Paperport 10 started with activation. As it happened I did 3 reformats on my main machine due to install errors, not realizing I used up 3 activations by doing so. 2 more a while later used them all up so I called when I finally sold that "doggy" pc I went to install Paperport on new replacment pc and could not. When I called, they refused to activate it, claimed I had to buy a new license. I read the eula which mentions nothing about this policy, and neither did the site anywhere.


Hey that stinks! :mad:
What right do they have to say how many differnet PCs someone installs
to as long as it's only active one PC at a time. They would need to state
that in the license agreement for it to hold up legally. I'm glad you gave
them hell and got your new activations. I hate activations, but until there
is a way to stop piracy I think we might be stuck with that complicated
Windows Registry that integrates with each application to help stop
piracy.

---pete---

[PeteF]

I still swear, to this day, one major reason for a lack of invasion, virus, trojan, etc. (besides all the other defenses) is the fact the OS lives on an odd drive letter.
Despite how clever some of these demons are, most are written to find the OS on default C: where the majority of the world keeps it. Can't find the OS, can't invade!
Maybe wishful thinking or maybe fact ... I don't know, but it works for me!

DB, I agree with you because for many years I had my OS on drive F:
and I was getting the same sense of protection as you stated.
---pete---