What is the Best Anti-Virus Program?

[PeteF]

What is the Best Anti-Virus Program?
April 2006, by High Tech Handyman

In my opinion, there is no single best anti-virus program
because it all depends upon various factors relating to your
computer power & usage, your experience level, and your
personal preferences. I typically recommend three different
anti-virus products per the three basic scenarios outlined
below. See which scenario best matches your situation.

http://www.htworkshop.com/freeinfo_best_antivirus.htm

---pete---

[Terry Hanushek]

Pete

Thanks for sharing. I like your reasonable 'different tools for different jobs' approach.

Terry

[dbarrow]

An AV that fails to do the job is not worth having...
An AV that can be disabled and wiped out by an attack is not worth having...

With the threat level ever increasing and the sophistication of the attacks at such a high quality technical level these days, there are no two ways around it, you have to have the best of the best!

I was a Symantec/Norton loyalist for many years.
With above average powerful machines, the slog of NAV was quite bearable.
Popularity has its price and the popularity of Norton makes it an obvious target.
Malicious attacks that have been specifically programmed to kill or disable Norton have been prominent for several years now.
I gave up on NAV when it gave its life defending the machine but was trashed by an attack.

Nod32, as indicated, is No Overhead Demanded.
Offering THE best rated protection of any AV product out there, it is the least intrusive and demanding on your machine. You never notice it there until it springs into action. Configuration is simple. Updates are silent and automatic, not to mention several times daily.

You get what you pay for and, in the case of Nod32, worth every penny!

[mylanta]

I couldn't agree more with DB here and I'll take it a step further.
Pete you start out admitting that Nav is a resource hog, slows the machine down and has difficult installation and uninstall issues besides. Why would we advise anyone to put such a program in their pc? Furthermore, I would never advise anyone to install a program that requires a special download tool to uninstall it, that's what we do for virus.
Besides all that, there is the fact that Norton AV has never had the ability to clean many files of virus, which I have always found a pure detriment. And finally it is the poorest program available for Trojans, which are causing more problems today than most virus.
As for Avg I do recommend it to my less fortunate clients for economic reasons, but I never for one minute allow them to think it is more than just a casual prevention of infestation as is eTrust or Avast as well. You cannot compare it's record for virus prevention with Nod32, Bit Defender or Kaspersky and you do get what you pay for. The good news is those free ones ar not the major roadblock software that Norton and Macafee are, nor are they the targets those programs are either.

[mylanta]

Pete,
Go here and read this..part of the reason we need to recommend only the best.
http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/What_is_W32_Funweb_A_dl_virus_and_how_do_you_get_r id_of_it

[PeteF]

Pete,
Go here and read this..part of the reason we need to recommend only the best.
http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/What_is_W32_Funweb_A_dl_virus_and_how_do_you_get_r id_of_it

Ok, I read that post which is dated back to Oct 2005. First thing that struck
me is that we don't know the habits of this user or how he got infected with
FunWeb malware in the first place. Next issue.. Is FunWeb really a virus or is
it spyware? Per my research, it's spyware so AVG should not have detected
it. See link below for info on FunWeb.
http://www.trendmicro.com/vinfo/grayware/ve_graywareDetails.asp?GNAME=ADWARE%5FFUNWEBPRODUC TS

So here's my point. If a user only uses their PC for web-based Email and
occasionally views a few very safe websites and receives no spam Email
and their ISP scans email for viruses, then they are at minimum risk for
viruses & spyware. AVG would work fine for such a person. Purchasing
Anti-Virus programs & Anti-spyware programs could end up being a big
waste of money, especially when the FREE alternatives like AVG, Spybot,
and Adaware all working together would be satisfactory.

If an occasional spyware or virus sneaks through, it will not likely be there
long as spyware & virus definitions are updated over time. I've never seen
a PC slow down to a crawl due to a single virus. I never even met a person
who personally knows another person who has had their identity stolen or
their accounts broken into as a result of spyware on their home or work
computer. So I'm more concerned about PC performance than I am about
PC security/privacy issues. I say, in most cases it's no big deal if a stray
virus or spyware gets through.

I think we've become overly paranoid over all these virus & spyware
issues and protection schemes. I worry more about the hard drive
crashing because most people I know have experienced a hard drive
failure. My phosophy is to go to extremes in ways of backups so that
you never lose any data while always assuming your HD will crash
within the next 2 to 24 hours. Then put up some good barriers for
virus & spyware protection & detection but don't go overboard and
drive yourself crazy because then the cure becomes worse than the
disease. :)

AVG is not for everyone but it does work well under certain
conditions. That's why I do recommend it for some people
as outlined in my article. There is simply no one cure all
solution to satisfy all people. Just my 2 cents. :)

---pete---

[PeteF]

Pete you start out admitting that Nav is a resource hog, slows the machine down and has difficult installation and uninstall issues besides. Why would we advise anyone to put such a program in their pc?


Yeah, that's an easy one. It's more about customer preferences.
Some people are driven by brand names & advertizing and no protection
system on earth is 100% foolproof, so I assume that anyone no matter
what, can become infected. If I put a program called "NOD" that a brand
driven customer never heard of, and none of their friends ever heard of,
and then that customer does something foolish that defeats all the
protection schemes and a virus get in, they will blame me for recommending
something less than a highly advertized name brand anti-virus program.
For those folks, I make all the problems associated with Norton Anti-Virus
known to them and allow them to make the final decision. Bottom line,
it's more for people who are driven by brand names and advertizing
who would not feel secure with anything different and those that don't
demand top performance from their PC.

---pete---

[mylanta]

Pete,
I don't know how you came to the conclusion this is spyware and if it is and you read the post, Avast and Bit defender both removed it for 2 different people.
"couldn't remove it using either Norton or Kaspersky AV software although both detected it - neither could remove it. Kaspersky advised going into safe mode to remove it but that also didn't work. I then used Cybermedia Uninstaller on it in safe mode and that did the trick." from anotheer thread on that same forum....
http://www.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/microsoft.public.security.virus/2004-11/ and down the bottom you will see Ms labels this a Trojan
That's way too many labels and removals by antivirus programs, where Avg let it in.
And here finally is Avg quarantining it but failing to remove it.
http://pcpi***op.invisionzone.com/lofiversion/index.php/t66255.html
I guess what I am getting at is that the better program will repel the virus or trojan, where the freebie and secondary will either pass it or quarantine it, and I don't know about you, I do not quarantine problems in any of my systems!

[mylanta]

Pete,
They cannot destroy Nod32, that's the whole point and I sell someone on it twice a week and they all say the same thing. "We love that program, and never even know it is there".

[dbarrow]

"If an occasional spyware or virus sneaks through, it will not likely be there
long as spyware & virus definitions are updated over time."

The POINT is.... it should NEVER get in to begin with!
Any AV that lets a few slip through now and then isn't worth whatever the price! Cleaning up AFTER the damage is done is false security.
The current generation of malware out there is not the "dirty tricks" garbage of prior generations.
The intent is to take over control of your machine and either rip off anything of value you have or use your machine as part of a bot net to do the same to others.

These people are not stupid, nor do they lack cash and resources to employ the best of the best. Hacking is a multi-billion dollar business run by large and well financed organized crime rings these days ... for one purpose only... to steal money!
They can afford heavy financing to back research into beating whatever AV and protection is out there ... and they are doing it.

Nod32 is particularly effective because of its blocking abilities ... at the gate ... where it catches any intrusion attempts before it can take root in the system.
That, combined with routers, firewalls, and registry locks like AdWatch are where your defenses should lie. Keep it outside the walls!

As many experts agree, CLEANING after the fact is becoming an exercise in futility and you had better be equipped with a "clean" image or backup to revert back to a clean state before the intrusion happened.
If you have to revert to cleaning, your walls and gates are weak and you should seriously change your security strategy.

[tonyd]

I can see where something can get in, even with the best AV product.

Let's say someone lets a virus loose today. Then let's say you and all the other anti-virus companies catch it at the same time. By the time the AV company realizes there's a new virus out there and comes out with an update, you're already infected. Are we going to fault them for letting that virus get to your machine? This is a case where it sneaks thru.

However, the next updated signature def file better come out real quick and have the capability to fix the problem (if possible).

-td

[mylanta]

I can see where something can get in, even with the best AV product.

Let's say someone lets a virus loose today. Then let's say you and all the other anti-virus companies catch it at the same time. By the time the AV company realizes there's a new virus out there and comes out with an update, you're already infected. Are we going to fault them for letting that virus get to your machine? This is a case where it sneaks thru.

However, the next updated signature def file better come out real quick and have the capability to fix the problem (if possible).

-td

Tony that is one of the biggest differences between a qulaity Av, and the rest. A quality Av has heuristics that will identify even an unknown virus and keep it out. I don't agree that any virus should ever get in a pc and I have never had one in, excppt for Trojans in the years I used Norton.

[PeteF]

Pete,
I don't know how you came to the conclusion this is spyware and if it is and you read the post, Avast and Bit defender both removed it for 2 different people.

Rich,
I had searched several virus databases looking for info on "funWeb".
I was getting zero hits until I finally found something that said it
was Adware. I just now looked up "funWeb" on the Eset Threat
encyclopedia and they don't have it listed either. Best I can tell
is that it's Adware that tries to pop up ads. Seems to me that NOD
would have missed it too. So maybe it is not classified as a virus.

I guess what I am getting at is that the better program will repel the virus or trojan, where the freebie and secondary will either pass it or quarantine it, and I don't know about you, I do not quarantine problems in any of my systems!

Ok, I got your point and agree 100% that NOD is a superior product
but try to see my point. Point being that for a variety of reasons,
some people come in contact with so few threats in a whole year period
and they are at minimum risk. Therefore, the odds that they will be
dramatically effected even if one did get through are minimal. For
example, if the FunWeb malware got in, all they would experience is a
pop up ad. Then maybe a few weeks later their lame anti-malware product
would be updated and eventually get it disabled. No big deal.

See, it only becomes a big deal when the computer performance
is dramatically affected or something is stolen, and so far from what
I can tell it's an extreme rare case that anyone we know is having
any accounts broken into or identity stolen as a result of spyware
on their PC.

I'd like someone to explain to me how all of us here on this forum who
come in contact with so many folks with spyware & virus infested
PCs for years now, and not one of us can testify that any of those
PCs resulted in identity theft or accounts broken into. However,
what we do see time and time again is SLOW computers or systems
so bogged down that they become inoperative. In every case like that
I've seen, it takes multiple nasty spyware & viruses to do that, and
often, it's the cleaning process that disables the PC after cleaning
hundreds of malware.

So the way I see it, a FREE program like AVG has it's risks and those
risks are minimized even further if the user is skilled enough to
avoid most malware in the first place. Even then, if something bad
does get through it's not going to do much to affect the user.
They always have the option to do an occasional FREE online
scan for a sanity check.

Ok, with all that said, I have been discussing fits Scenario #1 as
detailed in my article "What is the Best Anti-Virus Program?"
What you guys are advocating fits nicely into Scenario#2, but
may not suit all people and that is the main point of my article.
There is simply no single AV solution that is best suited for
everyone. :)

---pete---

[PeteF]

Nod32 is particularly effective because of its blocking abilities ... at the gate ... where it catches any intrusion attempts before it can take root in the system.
That, combined with routers, firewalls, and registry locks like AdWatch are where your defenses should lie. Keep it outside the walls!


Yep, I understand all that. Now, think about who might fit into Scenario #1
as detailed in my article. Someone who is willing to accept some responsibility
& risk. Someone who has a backup system that can overcome any malware
on earth or even a hard drive failure. Someone who comes in contact with
less than 6 virus all year. This type person can get by using AVG.

What you are describing best fits into Scenario #2.
See, I have something to best suit everyone! :)

---pete---

[casey]

Isn't this what was wrong with Norton?

From my original post over at DSLReports.com:

"I decided to go with another year of NOD32. It's fast, I've never had a virus with it, and it just works. The only thing still bugging me is how, whenever NOD32 finds something infected or a malicious file, it just about NEVER is able to do anything about it. It always says it can't quarantine it.. or it can't delete it. It got me wondering what I have it installed for in the first place.. it finds dangerous files, but can't do anything to them. Sorta pointless, eh? In one way or another, I still always managed to neutralize the threat, so it's not a huge problem. I would like it to be able to actually delete or quarantine the dangerous files. Even so, I've never been infected with it installed, and I guess that's what's most important with A/V software. Real-world protection.
Anyway.. since I'm a student, and a one-year license for their A/V product is 40 bucks.. I was wondering if NOD32 offers reduced prices for students? Would anybody around here happen to know?

TIA"
lynchknot
The only thing still bugging me is how, whenever NOD32 finds something infected or a malicious file, it just about NEVER is able to do anything about it. It always says it can't quarantine it.. or it can't delete it. - I noticed the same thing. I had to use an online scanner to clean my PC.

[mylanta]

For one thing the renewal isn't $40 it's $29. As for the rest of what is said, must be paid by some Symantec Veeps, because that Nod can't deal with virus, is just plain not true. You do realize how much Symantec spends buying user loyalty?

[casey]

For one thing the renewal isn't $40 it's $29. As for the rest of what is said, must be paid by some Symantec Veeps, because that Nod can't deal with virus, is just plain not true. You do realize how much Symantec spends buying user loyalty?

No Rich, Tell me... Don't forget I'm a Symantec Loyalist and I know how much I get paid so you better be right on the money....

[jcampi]

I understand the interest in NOD32 and Norton. I have been using Norton AV 2006 for some time and like it. When I tried NOD32 a couple years ago I was not impressed with the user interface. I just seemed odd to me. Norton is fairly simple to use and seems to do a good job. The bottom line here is - use what makes you happy.

[mylanta]

Larry,
I was referring to advertising, not "kickbacks"!!!!!!!!!!

[casey]

For one thing the renewal isn't $40 it's $29. As for the rest of what is said, must be paid by some Symantec Veeps, because that Nod can't deal with virus, is just plain not true. You do realize how much Symantec spends buying user loyalty?

Sorry Rich, I took this to mean they were paying off the users.

[dbarrow]

"The only thing still bugging me is how, whenever NOD32 finds something infected or a malicious file, it just about NEVER is able to do anything about it:

Nod32 AMON,IMON,or EMON usually catches the intrusion on the way in before it has attached to anything. Depending on how you have your actions set, it either deletes it or places it in the quarantine folder (should you want to submit it to them.

I have seen it grab something coming off the web.
I have not had the scans find anything that became resident on a drive or in the system.

If you do send them something, they usually analyze it and email you back within 24 hrs!, which is pretty impressive.

The threat these days isn't the email with an attachment, although that is still in use, or embedded in a file download, even though that still exists...
Most crap is now coming in from what you would think as otherwise "clean" web pages on sites you would normally trust.

You don't have to visit the darker side of the web. For those who do, that is a swamp full of quicksand. The bad guys have taken to hijacking code on otherwise respectable sites and inserting hidden stuff in HTML or pictures on a page. Most of it is quiet and very stealthy. It won't announce itself. It hides in your system until contacted by a port ping before it activates your system to become part of a bot net. If not for some of the other security and network monitoring measures we have discussed before, you would never know it was there.
Most AVs are not good at detecting base level rookits.
They were never designed for that back in the days before those tools existed.
Signature based alone AVs don't do well with rootkits.
That's where the heuristics of Nod32 prove superior and it blocks these files while inbound, before they roost.
Go back and find the interview with Kaspersky where he explains this very well.

All those Windows Updates are not because MS found something in the OS that needs to work better. They are exploits in things that communicate with the outside world where these hidden trojans and rootkits allow malicious code to take over your machine and use it without you knowing about it.

It is rapidly getting to the point where only the big AV names have the staff, resources, and money to keep current with the even better financed and staffed writers employed by organized crime who are busy 24/7 looking for a new way to get at your wallet.

People in general, as well as many businesses, don't yet fully appreciate the current threat level and the way it has increased in just the last year. Thinking you are safe with just an AV alone is a false sense of security. If you access the web, you better have a strong and well armed set of defenses including all the other things we have mentioned.

[dbarrow]

The fact that you don't know anybody who has been a victim of ID theft doesn't mean it isn't out there. ID theft is big business in organized crime these days and fast becoming the number one crime.

Odds are, you are more likely to have your ID ripped off some place other than your own personnal computer ...
A credit card transaction in a store where their database gets hacked, the state DMV records, all over the place.

Spending $10 @ month for credit protection and insurance these days is an essential! The after effects of cleaning up can cost thousands of dollars if you get hit.
The EquiFax service is pretty good. Within minutes of any inquiry or change, you get an email and txt message to your cell phone. A little scay when your cell phone starts going off in the middle of the night with a credit alert message!

The dirty secret is, the financial world and the entire infrastructure they have in place leaks like a screen door in a submarine and they are losing billions weekly. They have gotten away with not fixing the holes for years by raising the service charges to cover it ... we all pay for it.
Now that it has gotten totally out of control, and most of the world is totally dependent on plastic, computers and numbers for financial transactions, the full extent of the problem is coming out in the light and they are being forced to do something about it.

Don't wait until you become a victim until you do something to protect yourself!
That does include "Safe Computing" along with credit protection, careful handling of your accounts, cards, ID, and paperwork and all other things that link you to your money.
Know full well that your name, DOB, SS#, phone number, address, DL#, and credit card and bank account numbers are out there, all over the place, in numerous data bases all over the world.
It's only a matter of time until some bad guy collects them and puts them together to add you to his list!

[mylanta]

Yeah I can see where that was confusing Larry. It was two different thoughts that that post was bought at DSL Reports and then they spend a fortune on advertising also.

[casey]

Rich,

They were the posts of two different people on a forum for Nod32. I don't know if they were paid or not but it would
seem that Symantec would pick a bigger competitor then Nod32.

[casey]

I keep hearing this word Heuristics being the difference in Nod32, so Ihad to look up just what Heurisitcs was. I found it is just a procedure to get an end result. So there is nothing magical about heuristics and it just maybe that Nod32 has a better procedure then some of the other AV's.
The way it was being thrown around I thought this must be something new that nobody else has. I must say this again because I hate degrading any program, and as long as it satisfies the person using it, it's worth the money they paid for it. I have been using Norton/Symantec longer then most people have even heard about Nod32 and so far it has satisfied me and cost me less, so I guess
it is worth the money to me.

Rich tells you that he hasn't had a virus since he started using NOD32 and since I have been using Norton/Symantec longer then Rich has been using NOD32 and I haven't had a Virus this should tell you something.
Now I feel bad and I'll end up with a virus because I bragged I haven't had a virus. Oh well.:)

[mylanta]

Rich,

They were the posts of two different people on a forum for Nod32. I don't know if they were paid or not but it would



seem that Symantec would pick a bigger competitor then Nod32.


Do not be that naive Larry, happens all the time. I could probably read a Norton forum (providing I took laxatives first) and find any number of negative posts there that are plants. problem is proving that.

[casey]

I'm not surprised that I went to one of my daily reads and found this:

To Symantec hell and back in 15 easy steps
posted 04/12/06
Comments (33) Permalink
Like Charlie Brown with Lucy and that football, every year I optimistically renew my Norton Anti-Virus, hoping that maybe this time it won't be pure hell. Most recently it played out like so:

Step 1: Naively fall for the prompt to renew online, give Symantec my credit card number and other info.

Step 2. Am incorrectly charged the Canadian rate, after noticing that the "please wait while we process your request" on the site as I try to renew is for some reason in Italian.

Step 3: Go through the same process, renewing at the U.S. rate, hoping that once I install new upgrade I will easily get the refund for Canadian rate. (As it turns out, no refund is possible unless I download a complicated form, but that's a whole other corner of Symantec hell.)

Step 4. Receive no promised email instructions on how to download the upgrade, not in Spam Folder or anywhere else. Try to track my order by entering email address on Symantec site, to no avail.

Step 5: Cannot find ph# for support online at Symantec, call ph# I saved from last year's hellish process.

Step 6. Am transferred to India.

Step 7: Indian customer rep explains that because of technical problems, he cannot help me now, but that I can try calling back in a few hours. Explains, after I say I would like to avoid more hours wasted on phone, that no, he cannot give me an email contact to take care of this.

Step 8: Ask to speak to a supervisor.

Step 9: Am put on hold for a few minutes, then hear dial tone.

Step 10: Receive an email from Symantec on how to uninstall Norton Anti-Virus, with instructions not to reply to that email, although I wanted instructions on how to download not how to uninstall.

Step 11: Eventually emails on how to download Canadian and U.S. updated 2006 versions arrive.

Step 12: Try instructions in the U.S. version.

Step 13. Computer freezes before process seems to be completed. Vaguely new Nortony icons are now on my desktop, but I have no idea if they contain the actual 2006 updated Anti-Virus.

Step 14: Wonder if this procedure is purposely designed to drive Symantec customers insane. Could this be a "Springtime for Hitler" situation, in which Symantec makes money by enraging customers?

Step 15: Make plans for my computer geek friend Dan Akst to meet me for lunch at a restaurant around the corner from my house tomorrow, so that after lunch we can walk back to my house, where I will throw myself on the floor and wail pathetically until he sits down at the computer and fixes all things Symantec.


Return...

[casey]

Do not be that naive Larry, happens all the time. I could probably read a Norton forum (providing I took laxatives first) and find any number of negative posts there that are plants. problem is proving that.

You don't mean to tell me that Nod32 would stoop so low as to plant negative posts. Shame on them...

[mylanta]

Realistically Nod32 is such a small part of the picture and also are rather remote in Europe, so I doubt they are into this game. I was more or less referring to the Trend Micro, Symantec, Network Associates group etc.
I mean no one that has ever used Nod32 would say what those responses you posted said. I have used Nod32 for over 3 years now, and I have never seen a "varmint" Nod32 could not touch as they suggest occurs all the time. That's what makes me believe they are put up to that, and who knows if it is Symantec or another one doing it.
Have you ever read the reviews at Newegg and Amazon on products you are about to buy and found 15 pro and then one or two that are completely out of whack with what the others are saying. I am just convinced when I see that, that they are not for real, and of course I really don't know that for sure either.

[PeteF]

I'm not surprised that I went to one of my daily reads and found this:

To Symantec hell and back in 15 easy steps
posted 04/12/06
Comments (33) Permalink
Like Charlie Brown with Lucy and that football, every year I optimistically renew my Norton Anti-Virus, hoping that maybe this time it won't be pure hell. Most recently it played out like so: .......



Casey, that's a good example of one of those horrible experiences
people can have with Norton AV. The way I advise people is to first
respect their preference for Norton if they seem to already be sold
on using it. I warn them that it can be problematic and tell them
of other alternatives. If they still want to go with Norton and
experience any problems at all, I advise them to abandon it. In
other words, try it, but if it give you any problems, dump it and
don't get too involved trying to fix things.

---pete---

[PeteF]

Here's one you all might like.... :)

What is the best AV??? How about one that keeps giving?
About a year ago I installed Norton AV 2005 on a Win XP pc
and at the end of the installation it would not accept the the
product key. Not having a solution I just left it as is with the
intention of troubleshooting another day.

Well I came back a day or so later and noticed it fixed itself
and the subscription renewal date was set for full year subscription.

Ok, one year later, the owner of the same computer tells me he
is getting pop up messages from Norton AV telling him the subscription
needs to be renewed. A few days later I go to that PC and find it
renewed itself ! :yo: Thank you very much for the FREE subscription.

I guess the odds are that Norton can also screw up in your favor.

---pete---

[casey]

Casey, that's a good example of one of those horrible experiences
people can have with Norton AV. The way I advise people is to first
respect their preference for Norton if they seem to already be sold
on using it. I warn them that it can be problematic and tell them
of other alternatives. If they still want to go with Norton and
experience any problems at all, I advise them to abandon it. In
other words, try it, but if it give you any problems, dump it and
don't get too involved trying to fix things.

---pete---

Pete,

I have been using Norton for more years then I want to remember and I have never yet renewed a subscription.
Every year it seems when it comes time for me to get a new version Symantec has some kind of deal that doesn't seem to ever cost me more then $10 for the new version and I have gotten after rebate free. The good thing about Symantec is there rebaates usually come back in 4-6 weeks. Sometimes I have the rebate back before I get the
charge on my credit card. Just recently I saw a deal of three Norton 2006 AV's for $14.99 after rebate. I was ready to jump pn it but I just installed two with new versions of 2006. Like I said I am more then satisfied
(but here I go again) with all versions . I did have one version(I forget which) that wouldn't uninstall but I downloaded Symantec's uninstall program and it was gone in seconds. Tell your customers to save money and get the new version with a deal and upgrade rebates..

[PeteF]

I did have one version(I forget which) that wouldn't uninstall but I downloaded Symantec's uninstall program and it was gone in seconds. Tell your customers to save money and get the new version with a deal and upgrade rebates..

See, you are skilled enough to locate the needed tools at the Symantec
site and execute them properly. Many people who call for my services
are not as skilled so they'd have to pay me to do it for them. That's
why I have to warn them ahead of time that it can be problematic.

Casey, are you getting your Norton AV deals online at the Symantec
site or is that at the local retail store?

---pete---

[casey]

Casey, are you getting your Norton AV deals online at the Symantec
site or is that at the local retail store?

---pete---

I don't recall ever getting AV from Symantec online. I have read of some good deals on the internet, like the three AV's for $14.99, but I always bought from a BM store. I usually do my own taxes and they usually have really good deals with the tax software but this year I bought a straight package of Norton 2006 and after the rebate it was $9.99. Like I said, so far Symantec has been great with the rebates and upgrades...
I did have the Norton security suite once and for some reason I didn't like it.