Not a problem, just a thought process

[photolady]

DDR2........is it going to end up going the way of RAMBUS. I don't see many people using this memory. And believe me when I say it, I know many computer builders and computer techs. ;)

Just want you all's thoughts on this.

[Dan18960]

RAMBUS had it's demise from the lawsuits they were engaged with at the time. They won the battle but lost the war! Motherboard manufacturers didn't want to get nailed by patent issues of the time.

I have almost all my home systems RAMBUS based and up til a recent 955 xtreme Intel motherboard, my RAMBUS systems were at or beyond pace of all the DDR boxes we supplied. The ONLY reason I went with the Xtreme was as a demo box for a photographer by the way.

Also, RAMBUS was always 1/2 to twice the price of DDR - and people are always looking for the CHEAP computers. This is not the issue with DDR2 memory.

For example (Crucial at New Egg) DDR 400 1gb $89.00 and DDR2 533 $95.50 BUT DDR 500 is $135.00. So DDR2 for the same speed as a rated DDR module is CHEAPER - and people will be swayed by going the cheaper route.

DDR2 will be needed to keep pace with the fsb, processor, and PCI-x requirements to not bottleneck the data stream.

You have to remember that DDR/2 are not exactly direct throughput - they are doubling the existing data by allowing incoming and outgoing datastreams thus making it seem that they are applying speed capacity. 400 mhz is only doubling the 200 in and 200 out speed - RAMBUS on the other hand was direct throughput. I was/am using 1ghz RAMBUS on a 2.5ghz processor running on a 533mhz fsb - and it keeps more than a decent pace with ALL the 800 fsb boards and 3.x processors running DDR 400 I have ever put on my bench.

Just to give you a case in point - I am working on a 1.7ghz, 1gb RAMBUS 800mhz system that I am just NOW thinking of retiring. Mostly thinking IF actually making the switch would be worth while because the ONLY system I have in the house that is notably fast is the new 955 I built. Nothing has crossed my bench on the "mainstream" systems that makes me want to give up this old ghost.

Also, to give you the performance base - a PHOTOGRAPHER (yep demanding the fastest) just replace a 5 year old RAMBUS system with the 955 xtreme. The RAMBUS system was processing her photos in her software at 2.5 minutes + and the Xtreme managed to reduce that to 2 minutes or less. While for the casual photographer (hobby) would not see a return on the extra dollars of the xtreme - her professional requirements is ending up saving her HOURS of processing over the previous system. The "old" system was passed on to her husband to do his stock tracking and took the place of a 2 year Dell - and he is amazed at how much faster the OLD RAMBUS system is over his DDR Dell.

[mylanta]

My son in law has an 8000 dell with Rambus that was given to him a few years ago, and it is a medium range P4 like yours. I was literally shocked at how fast it is with 1 gig of Rambus ram, and I think you hit it on the nose with price. That just really had no appeal to home builders whereas ones who bought pc's with it in, in most cases didn't even know what they bought. I gag when I am asked to upgrade a pc and note it has Rambus Ram and that alone loses me the job most of the time, as it should be today. TG I don't see much of it.
DDR2 puzzles me as it really is less expensive than DDR which should help it, though the architecture it embodies is really not utilized yet by any current pc's. The fact that Amd has taken over so much home build business, and I would love to see a number on that but you know if you can read that they have put serious dents into Intel business and it is the home build sector where that is mostly,and Amd has yet to issue any motherboards with DDR2 architecture though it is about to this Spring. Actually Amd enthusiasts believe there is little or no difference in DDR2, but market pressure has forced them to work with it in order to keep up their "leading edge" appearance...and I wonder if it will make it for those reasons.
No one was more pro Intel than me and ironically I made the turn with a bench machine I threw together from client junk laying around that is an XP Barton 2900, now with an Msi board and a gig of DDR ram. I didn't use it much but I began to realize that it had so much more "zip" than my Prescott P4 3.4 DDR 1 gig Intel box, I eventually sold all my Intel Pc's. I still cannot explain the difference but this dual core 4200 with 2 gig DDR 3200, will blow the doors off of any Intel box I have ever seen with 2.2 gh processing speed and I am still reading to find out why it is. Ironically your 955 box while it is comparable to this one, probably is not quite as responsive and the difference in cost is incredible I would bet. The motherboard alone has to be $60 less. I still cannot put my finger on the difference and I have also read an incredible amount of criticism of NForce 4 nvidia chipsets, that I thyink are what makes the difference, providing you get the right motherboard.

[photolady]

Thanks for the thoughts.
I have only had three systems come in that use RAMBUS, thank goodness they didn't ask to update the memory. In my opinion it is waaayyy toooo expensive for the ordinary home user.
I did have one system that came in, dead on the bench, and I built them an upgrade. The nice thing is I get to keep the old working parts. It had two sticks and dummies of RAMBUS which I sold later to another customer.

I guess I'll have to wait a bit to see where DDR2 is going. But thanks again for your thoughts on this.

Btw, I too run only AMD's.

[dbarrow]

DDR2 is here to stay... with AMD making the switch.
There was a transition period where fast DDR with low latency was trumping DDR2 as DDR2 started out with some really high latency. Faster, lower latency DDR2 has begun to main stream.

The roadmaps are clear. PCIe is here to stay. The older PCI chipsets and mobos are drying up fast. Your new mobo will be DDR2, like it or not!
As dual core starts to mature, DDR2 will start to show advantage. The technical what and wherefore is out there in the Intel and AMD roadmaps. It is looking like 1st and 2nd qtr next year will be when the new CPUs, chipsets, and software will start melding together to take advantage of the bigger pipelines.
The dual core revolution is on and DDR2 is an essential part of it. But... the current transition period and shake out says I don't want to look at it until at least the end of next year when the speeds increase, Vista goes mainstream, and other software catches up to the platform.

[mylanta]

Thanks for the thoughs.
I have only had three systems come in that use RAMBUS, thank goodness they didn't ask to update the memory. In my opinion it is waaayyy toooo expensive for the ordinary home user.
I did have one system that came in, dead on the bench, and I built them an upgrade. The nice thing is I get to keep the old working parts. It had two sticks and dummies of RAMBUS which I sold later to another customer.

I guess I'll have to wait a bit to see where DDR2 is going. But thanks again for your thoughts on this.

Btw, I too run only AMD's.


I do the same thing and I just sold two rambus sticks on eBay that came the same way.

[mylanta]

I defintiely agree pci-Xpress i here to stay and as I wrote in one of my reviews somewhere, it is incredibly superior to agp and I think anyone would see this. The overall graphics quality is far superior.

[dbarrow]

PCIe graphics vs AGP graphics, bigger pipe, faster rendering.
Other than that...
I have 2 ATI X850XT Platinum cards.
Mine is PCIe
Son's is AGP
Other than slot, identical cards.
There is no real noticable difference in video quality.
Same game renders same way on both machines, same monitors, same settings.
Mine is substantially faster as it is a 925 chipset, 4g CPU and 1g ram vs 2.8 and 512. I get much faster load time and better frame rates.
His handles the latest games (very demanding) on a 4yr old machine rather well considering the hardware differences.

Rich, I think you just noticed the difference between bottom end work station vid cards and something decent!
Now, if you really want to blow your socks off... step up to the top end stuff and run a game like Oblivion where the rendering is so real, characters look like a movie!
The GPU on the high end card does 99% of the work on the card rather than hogging the system. The game recommends 3.2 or better processor and 1g ram!

Don't forget vid driver updates....
There ARE improvements in many aspects as they get more and more out of the GPU with each refinement.
Add some fine tuning with a vid "tweaker", like the ATI Tray Tools, and make it really come alive.
As much of a PITA it is to do the monthly CAT ATI update, I often notice a WOW factor and a visible difference.
(always scan the "What's new" in the update to see if it applies to your card/chipset and see if there is a video engine update. Some months, there are only error and bug corrections)