Grammar Mistakes (and Corrections)

[mommalina]

The following was posted in the antivirus thread It's time to toss out your antivirus software (http://www.kickenhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2554). It substantially diverged from the original post so I am starting a new thread devoted to grammer.

Terry



RAK wrote: ........Thanks for the article, Doug I'm Bookmarkin Tech Republic. I see it's primarily an IT publication, but looks like it has some useful info even dabblers like myself can use, such as this one:
10 flagrant grammar mistakes that make you look stupid

http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-10881-6075621.html#

Thanks, RAK. Great grammar refresher course.

There are a lot of gimmicks to help remember proper spelling or usage. Here's one of mine:

The insurance agent told the anxious bride-to-be, "I assure you that I will ensure that your fiancée will be insured for at least three million dollars. I'm meeting him at two o'clock to sell him a life insurance policy."

Lina

[PeteF]

10 flagrant grammar mistakes that make you look stupid:
http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-10881-6075621.html#

I'm asking, what is the correct usage here?

* I used to be thin, but now I'm fat.

* I use to be thin, but now I'm fat.

---pete---

[mommalina]

I'm asking, what is the correct usage here?

* I used to be thin, but now I'm fat.

* I use to be thin, but now I'm fat.

---pete---

Pete, thanks for the challenge. I wasn't (still not) sure. I think it's "I used to be thin, but now I'm fat."

Check this out: http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/065.html

The American Heritage® Book of English Usage.
A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.

1. Grammar: Traditional Rules, Word Order, Agreement, and Case

§ 65. used to
We use the verb use in its past tense with an infinitive to indicate a past condition or habitual practice: We used to live in that house. Because the -d in used is not pronounced in these constructions, people sometimes mistakenly leave it out when writing. Thus it is incorrect to write We use to play tennis. When do occurs with this form of use in negative statements and in questions, the situation is reversed, and use to (not used to) is correct: You did not use to play on that team. Didn’t she use to work for your company?

I'm trying to figure this out:

* if the statement is declarative, affirmative, in the past tense, used to is correct.

* if the statement is negative or it's a question, and they use the verb do, use to is correct.

So,

* I used to be fat.. (declarative, infinitive, past tense, affirmative)

* Didn't he / did he not use to be fat? (negative, question, verb do)

* I didn't use to be fat. (negative, verb do)

If I figured it out correctlly, I think I'll try to remember it this way:

* Yes, she used to be fat.

*Didn't she use to be fat??

* No, she didn't / did not use to be fat

Lina

[RAK]

OMEEGOD! I KILLED THE THREAD!:faint:

Don't tell my Graamar'.:)

[Terry Hanushek]

Ron

OMEEGOD! I KILLED THE THREAD!:faint:

Hopefully I have retained the integrity of Doug's original thread while opening an interesting discussion of grammar.

I also found the article interesting and see that I have some work to do with affect / effect. :ohwell:

Terry

[mommalina]

Ron

I also found the article interesting and see that I have some work to do with affect / effect. :ohwell:


Terry, I just discovered that my gimmick to remember proper usage of effect / affect is not infallible!. :faint:

I thought effect could at times be used both as a verb and a noun, but affect could only be used as a verb. That's generally correct, except for the following:

http://www.bartleby.com/64/C003/015.html
The American Heritage® Book of English Usage.
A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.

3. Word Choice: New Uses, Common Confusion, and Constraints

§ 15. affect / effect


Affect and effect are sometimes confused, but before you can sort them out, you must sort out the two words spelled affect. One means “to put on a false show of,” as in She affected a British accent. The other can be both a noun and a verb. The noun meaning “emotion” is a technical term from psychology that sometimes shows up in general writing, as in this quote from a Norman Mailer piece about the Gulf War: “Of course, the soldiers seen on television had been carefully chosen for blandness of affect.”

In its far more common role as a verb, affect usually means “to influence,” as in The Surgeon General’s report outlined how smoking affects health.

Effect can also serve as a noun or a verb. The noun means “a result.” Thus if you affect something, you are likely to see an effect of some kind, and from this may arise some of the confusion. As a verb, effect means “to bring about or execute.” Thus, using effect in the sentence The measures have been designed to effect savings implies that the measures will cause new savings to come about. But using affect in the very similar sentence These measures may affect savings could just as easily imply that the measures may reduce savings that have already been realized.

Sooo, I guess my gimmick is okay unless the noun denotes emotion. Then it's gotta be affect.

Maybe computer jargon is not so difficult after all.:)

Lina

[Seth]

I'm asking, what is the correct usage here?

* I used to be thin, but now I'm fat.

* I use to be thin, but now I'm fat.

---pete---

Neither statement makes sense. The correct statement would be:

"I was thin, but now I'm fat".

[mommalina]

Originally Posted by PeteF
I'm asking, what is the correct usage here?

* I used to be thin, but now I'm fat.

* I use to be thin, but now I'm fat.

---pete---

Neither statement makes sense. The correct statement would be:

"I was thin, but now I'm fat".

Seth, what's the difference? "Used to be" and "was" are both past tenses. In Spanish, and probably French and Italian, they would be the imperfect and preterite tenses. Maybe Pete was intermittently fat.......and thus the imperfect tense (used to be) is appropriate?

I'm not as good with English verb tenses. Perhaps "used to be" is Perfect Progressive Past, and "was" is Simple Past Tense?

Any English majors here?

Lina

[Seth]

Lina,

The tenses aren't the issue.

"I use (or used) to be fat doesn't make sense because to "use" means that you employ something. For example, "I use (used) a hammer". In this case, the hammer is employed. You can't employ "to be fat".

[mommalina]

Lina,

The tenses aren't the issue.

"I use (or used) to be fat doesn't make sense because to "use" means that you employ something. For example, "I use (used) a hammer". In this case, the hammer is employed. You can't employ "to be fat".

Seth, you got my nit-picking mind in high gear.

How about "I used to use a hammer"? There the first conjugated form of the verb "to use" (used) does not mean employ, and the second conjugated form of the verb "to use" (use) does mean employ.

That would cause me to conclude that "use" does not always mean employ something.

Also note part of a previous quote: We use the verb use in its past tense with an infinitive to indicate a past condition or habitual practice: We used to live in that house

Maybe Pete gains and loses weight, goes up and down the scale, and it becomes a habitual condition? :biggrin1:

"Use to" and "Used to" may be idiomatic expressions which are exempt from the usual rules of grammar and definition.

Lina

P.S. What a nice diversion from computers and politics!

[Seth]

Damn...

I wrote a reply for you Lina, but it didn't post.

Going on a service call. Be back later to respond.

[PeteF]

"Use to" and "Used to" may be idiomatic expressions which are exempt from the usual rules of grammar and definition.


Yeah, I figure it's slang or improper grammar, but I hear & see people
using it both ways so often that I keep wondering what is the correct
usage even as slang. It's one of those little things that's bugged my for
a long time that I can never get an answer to. :)

---pete---

[Seth]

Seth, you got my nit-picking mind in high gear.

Glad to be of service.:D

How about "I used to use a hammer"? There the first conjugated form of the verb "to use" (used) does not mean employ, and the second conjugated form of the verb "to use" (use) does mean employ.

That would cause me to conclude that "use" does not always mean employ something.

Nice try Lina, but your example is incorrect. Examples of the correct way to verbally express the use of a hammer in the past tense would be:

I was using a hammer.
Previously I used a hammer.
In the past I used a hammer.

P.S. What a nice diversion from computers and politics!

Agreed!

[mommalina]

Seth, I'm not convinced. You did not reply to one of the quotes I made. The American Heritage® Book of English Usage says:

We use the verb use in its past tense with an infinitive to indicate a past condition or habitual practice: We used to live in that house.

That sentence came from:
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/065.html

The American Heritage® Book of English Usage.
A Practical and Authoritative Guide to Contemporary English. 1996.

1. Grammar: Traditional Rules, Word Order, Agreement, and Case

§ 65. used to
Quote:
We use the verb use in its past tense with an infinitive to indicate a past condition or habitual practice: We used to live in that house. Because the -d in used is not pronounced in these constructions, people sometimes mistakenly leave it out when writing. Thus it is incorrect to write We use to play tennis. When do occurs with this form of use in negative statements and in questions, the situation is reversed, and use to (not used to) is correct: You did not use to play on that team. Didn’t she use to work for your company?

Why would American Heritage elaborate on the use of use to and used to if the words, in those instances, do not mean employ? .... :confused:

Lina

[Seth]

Seth, I'm not convinced. You did not reply to one of the quotes I made.
Wow, you're a toughy aren't ya!;)

Regarding the term as a verb: I found the following and concede (Note #7).

Main Entry: 2use
Pronunciation: 'yüz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): used /'yüzd, in the phrase "used to" usually 'yüs(t)/; us·ing /'yü-zi[ng]/
transitive senses
1 archaic : ACCUSTOM (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/accustom), HABITUATE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/habituate)
2 : to put into action or service : avail oneself of : EMPLOY (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/employ)
3 : to consume or take (as liquor or drugs) regularly
4 : to carry out a purpose or action by means of : UTILIZE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/utilize); also : MANIPULATE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/manipulate+)2b <used him selfishly>
5 : to expend or consume by putting to use -- often used with up
6 : to behave toward : act with regard to : TREAT (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/treat) <used the prisoners cruelly>
7 : STAND (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/stand+)1d <the house could use a coat of paint>
intransitive senses -- used in the past with to to indicate a former fact or state <didn't use to smoke>

Looks like the #7 definition of "use" was entered as an after thought, or to comply with growing slang.

...Wait a second, I'm on to you Lina! You infiltrated the Merriam-Webster site and added that crazy definition yourself!:lol: And here you were pretending to know very little about computers!

Allright you win.:hail:

Don't get used to it:)

[mommalina]

Seth wrote:Allright you win.

Don't get used to it
Seth, don't fret. I'm not picking on you, honest! :peace:

I learned something from Pete's question about use to and used to. Never thought about it or noticed the difference. Now I know....and so do you. :amen:

Lina

[RAK]

Don't get used to it

Since it follows a negative, shouldn't that be "Don't get use to it"?:eyebrows:
Hmm.... This is beginning to rival the debate over cocoanuts and swallows in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" . Besides, down here around Philly the proper use of "use" is;
Yo! Any of YOOS' guys up 'dere speak American?:wacko:

[Seth]

Since it follows a negative, shouldn't that be "Don't get use to it"?:eyebrows:

That was just my written sarcasm.

Hmm.... This is beginning to rival the debate over cocoanuts and swallows in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail".

I love the Holy Grail! In my opinion, it's one of the best comedies ever made.

[mommalina]

Since it follows a negative, shouldn't that be "Don't get use to it"?:eyebrows:

Seth, now you have me confused .... :hurt:

Used to if it's not a question and not negative. Use to if it is a question or negative.
.....and the wheels of the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round...

Now how the heck am I going to remember? Got it: used to only for positive statements. Yep, that's the gimmick I'll use to remember..
:cheer2:

Lina

[Oldie]

Nice to sea Lina bak in full sving and postin more offen. Kindly escuse my grammer, still av patch over eye ;)

Oldee http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/Srug/6611qok.gif

[Tuppence]

"Used to be" seems perfectly all right to me. The person using it is making a declarative statement of what he once was.

We use the phrase in such a way over here.

He could have written, "I once was fat, but now am thin"......Echoes of "Amazing Grace", there!



Penny :)

[Terry Hanushek]

Oldie

Nice to sea Lina bak in full sving and postin more offen. Kindly escuse my grammer, still av patch over eye ;)
Lina has been increasingly active lately but not in this thread that goes back to early 2006. It was partially resuscitated by Donna this AM while she was tiptoeing through our archives. :) BTW the chocolate does seem to make her feet smaller :D

Terry