Nvidia NForce4 Chipset Problems

[mylanta]

I have seen the issue crop up quite a few times on other forums, but there are issues with Nvidia Nforce4 chipset and usb ports affecting a whole series of Motherboards. A known issue that can make usb ports malfunction on many Biostar, Asus, Dfi and Abit boards will actually make the usb ports not function.
With my incredible bargain build from last week
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6881393027 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6881393027)
I picked up a DFi Infinity mobo...
I jumped right into the fray with this problem. I had freezes cropping up after about 1/2 hour on and noted they were internet freezes mostly but not all together. Based on some notes on Dfi site, I assumed it had to do with using a 20 pin psu on a 24 pin mobo, because it talked of instability from doing that. But a 24 pin psu made no difference at all.
Removing the usb wireless adapter from usb port and adding usb 2.0 pci card solved that problem. I also removed usb mouse and keyboard and used adapters to plug into usb ports. I had also found 1394 devices had the same problem, but further read it is only related to storage devices and I do use external hard drives and dvd-rw's as well.
Ironically you can plug devices in while booted up, but what you cannot do is boot with them plugged in or even reboot with them in. So in desperation as bios updates and other hardware removal did nothing, I uninstalled all Nvidia software including chipset driver but the exception of ethernet card and all is well with no freezes and usb ports and 1394 ports working fine now! Oh and before someone suggests it, I had downloaded and installed newest nvidia chipset drivers as well and so no change, in fact if anything the problem got worse.
From what I here the ATi Crossfire chipset boards are currently the answer for AMD dual core cpu's and I should have mentioned the problem is only on dual core Athlon X2 cpu's.

[dbarrow]

http://www.abxzone.com/forums/
Did you browse through here in chipsets forums?
http://forum.abit-usa.com/
Try here as well.

I recall seeing tons of posts relating to Nforce chipset problems on the AMD boards but don't follow them.
If there are answers, you may find some good ones in those forums.

[mylanta]

Thanks Doug but have already figured out the problem. Those forums are really difficult to find your way in.

[mylanta]

Well it was working but Raptor drive I ordered for this setup finally arrived and all I did was install it and restore image file to it and boot is stalled again as long as any storage device is plugged in to any usb port. 1394 ports working ok though. Of cousre I thoroughly killed it uninstallaing all nvidia drivers and then couldn't boot at all so I ordered Asus A8R-MVP from Newegg and in 2 days I can have the joys of another new OS but I cannot take this anymore. The real problem comes in when there are only 3 pci slots. One has to be Audigy sound card, next is wireless adapter and it leaves me one slot for usb and firewire which most devices will not work on mobo usb ports. I could do what I did on Biostar and buy pci-express cards as there are 2 of those, but I think this DFi board is garbage and I have had enough. So on to ATi Crossfire chipset. Certainly can't be this much trouble. I certainly don't remember all these problems when I was all Intel, I have to say. I am not sure if this is worth it.
If Nvidia was the saving grace of Amd, and NForce4 is a mess, now if you look almost all boards for Amd are nForce4 chipsets. It appears that sli is also a probelm with these boards so my suggestion is stay away there too.
If I wasn't already down this path with too many components, I would sell them separately on eBay and try Intel dual core cpu's.

[dbarrow]

http://www.sis.com/pressroom/pressrelease_000230.htm

Taipei, May 29th, 2006—Silicon Integrated Systems (SiS) is enthusiastic about working with AMD (NYSE: AMD) to help develop and support socket AM2 platforms. SiS and AMD value cooperation and the ability to work together on innovative technologies while building a close relationship. SiS is now poised to release a full line of solutions for the socket AM2 platform.

SiS proudly introduces its newly-released socket AM2 solutions supporting AMD Athlon™ 64 and AMD Sempron™ processors, including the AMD Athlon™ 64 FX-62 and AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 5000+ dual-core processors. Socket AM2 processors provide full support for advanced dual-channel DDR2 memory, to effectively enhance memory efficiency, to increase memory bandwidth and to enhance overall system performance. SiS’ latest chipsets for socket AM2: SiS756 and SiS761GX, represent the latest chipset offerings from SiS for desktop on AMD-processor based platforms.

My older box has a SIS chipset that has never given me any problems.

The ATI Crossfire, from what I have briefly read, looks pretty good.

[Dan18960]

Well it was working but Raptor drive I ordered for this setup finally arrived and all I did was install it and restore image file to it and boot is stalled again as long as any storage device is plugged in to any usb port.

Rich,

Did you try to disable USB in the boot parameters? I had a client's kid who hooked up an Ipod and the computer locked up when booting. When I disabled the USB bootable setting - everything flew like it was suppose to.

[mylanta]

ooh I would bet it isn't allowed because I wouldn't but I never looked either. Thank you and I'll get back to you!

[mylanta]

Damn it,damn it, damn it,damn it,damn it, damn it...I will have to refuse the mobo Dan had it "knocked" and Newegg is so fast it has been shipped already....(ordered last night 11PM).
There was no usb boot enable in the bios but on a hunch I shut off the 4th boot device enable, though it did not specify any device, replugged all the usb drives and "bingo" we boot nicely. Still bugs me that before changing the hard drives, everything was working OK, but I'll take the solution, save the bucks and come back to fight another day. That would have been my 4th personal clean install in 3 weeks and enough already!!!!

[jcampi]

Threads like this are what prevents me from taking the leap to build my own PC. I don't know if I'm ready for this stuff.

[casey]

I had the trouble booting when I first got my 17" Dell LCD monitor that had USB ports on the side of the screen. If I let anything plugged in to the USB ports it wouldn't boot. When I pulled the USB device out it was fine. I resolved the problem by moving the monitor to another computer. Now maybe I'll go back and check to see if I still have that problem...

No, The computer boots normally now with a USB device plugged in...

[mylanta]

I had the trouble booting when I first got my 17" Dell LCD monitor that had USB ports on the side of the screen. If I let anything plugged in to the USB ports it wouldn't boot. When I pulled the USB device out it was fine. I resolved the problem by moving the monitor to another computer. Now maybe I'll go back and check to see if I still have that problem...

Larry,
Don't be a stupid as I was...if you have NForce4 take driver out all except for sm bus and ethernet driver...ide storage driver is the "killer"...oh and no NForce firewall either.I had my other drives on usb card but Canon Photo Printer on usb has at times shown up as storage device probably because it can take sd card and compact flash cards and that was plugged into usb powered hub which was still in main usb ports. I also have that same plug you did from dell printer into usb port stopping boot. Take out 4th boot device and anything bootable usb, that has to be the same problem.

[mylanta]

Well all was well until about 11:30 on Paltalk Chatroom last night when everything slowed down into slow motion and the internet creeped along.
After Paltalk ended there was no change so reboot and failed to boot, just hung. I managed to crank it up with system dump errors, blue screen etc...
And took UPS refusal for new mobo due in today off my door and went to bed.
Tomorrow I will strip the case and make ready for an end to this BS. On to ATi Crossfire chipset and I hope "greater glory"!

[Dan18960]

Threads like this are what prevents me from taking the leap to build my own PC. I don't know if I'm ready for this stuff.

But John, we have already given you the list to build a killer system and REMEMBER you are building a "supplement" system to your network, so before you retire any system you can connect here with any questions you might have in the development. THEN you can put the system into the mainstream of your home network.

You will be surprised at the enjoyment you will experience with building your own box. Even though I only build a few systems a year - one to spec our client systems annually and maybe a system or two for family or special build for a client (which had me building a system for a photographer) and when I get them on-line, I really feel great.

I don't think I will ever go a year without building at least one system.

[dbarrow]

Some people play golf....
Some like to play a game called 'computer' that makes chess look like a sissy game.
Expand your mind and try it sometime!
You probably spend more on other hobbies as it is.

[jcampi]

Dan, you raise good points. There are pros and cons on building your own PC. Who knows - maybe I'll give it a try.

[Dan18960]

John,

I think I heard a saying one time (might have been from Yoda).

Young Skywalker, try not, DO! :typing:

;)

[jcampi]

It's getting more tempting. I do like the idea of custominzing my own PC. I would also like to select a very special case, etc. I have time to think about it. I would keep my current PC until it's done so I'd be in no rush.

[mylanta]

Starting to sound right John, personalizing is the key. I have never seen a case from any maker I really liked. Because of my photographer background I love color. I have 2 different Enermax cases. One is yellow and silver and the other is red. They are just so nice compared to boring black or beeige cases. And do you love the scissors case opening on your Dell. I hated that and both clamps were busted by the time I sold my 4300. Then there is the weight. That dell weighed as much as the two I have now put together. I mean when it finally dies for good, you have a neat" boat anchor". Then there is the rest of choosing the brand of dvd-rw you really want. Also WD hard drive which we all know are the best are seldom in any boxed unit. and so on...

[dbarrow]

Newegg ... Aspire cases
Son just got his new Aspire case which is a lot like mine.
Full tower with 500w PSU, side and top fans, 3 slide out hd bays. $84
You can't beat them for the money and they are a knockoff of the Antec cases.
I really like them for the price.

[mylanta]

Hey well I got my Asus A8R-MVP to replace DFi Infinty on it's way to mobo heaven in California...nice board with ATi Crossfire chipset and surprisingly stable. All usbs work nicely as does 1394. I got my DLink wirelss tower in and working fine in this one and so far I like it. One bad dseign flaw put ide cable for floppy and secondary ide underneath hard drives and there is no way to get to them without removing hard drives. This board does not have SLi that I can see but it has two pci-express 16 video slots so I have to see what that is all about...and I have to add I was really lazy. The thought of one more format and wip was too overbearing as I just did this last week twice. I tried my delete everything in device manager in safe mode and forget it as everything said it was required by the OS, yeah right! So I did repair and it's running flawlessly...I imagine I will wind up doing reformat in a few weeks but I needed a break!

[jcampi]

Rich, I agree with you. I was looking at some cases on newegg.com and like a few of them. I guess the ATX cases are way to go. I would like a small case that doesn't take much space. I also like the cases that have a clear window on the side. Are there any other sites that offer good cases? Which brand cases are good? Is ATX the form factor I should choose?

[mylanta]

John Atx is the only one you can choose as all mobos produced today are for Atx cases.
I like Enermax, Thermaltake, Startech, Evercase and Aspire...

[Dan18960]

John,

First pick your motherboard and the case has to be associated with that "class".

I made the mistake last time of ordering a MATX case and an ATX motherboard - well the case went back! I wanted THAT motherboard.

But you should be able to get a desktop / tower case in either case configuration.

[jcampi]

Where are some sites with the best cases? My goal is to build the PC near the fall or before Christmas time. My budget would be about $1,000. My current monitor uses a dvi connection with the AGP video card. If I go for a new mother board and PC they all seem to use PCIe now. Does PCIe also offer dvi for my existing monitor?

[dbarrow]

Do you intend to recycle your current vid card or buy/upgrade to a new one?

If you want to recycle the current card, there are (few) alternatives in a mobo still using AGP.
Son is using his ATI X850XT PE for a new box using Asus P5P800 SE with socket 775 Dual Core 805D and 2g low latency Corsair. We expect an OC of 3.8 or so.

[mylanta]

Do you intend to recycle your current vid card or buy/upgrade to a new one?

If you want to recycle the current card, there are (few) alternatives in a mobo still using AGP.
Son is using his ATI X850XT PE for a new box using Asus P5P800 SE with socket 775 Dual Core 805D and 2g low latency Corsair. We expect an OC of 3.8 or so.

Don't even think about not going pci-express the difference is night and day and yes dvi is the future and almpost every card has dvi port now.

[dbarrow]

If buying new, yes! There IS a difference with PCIe.
If stuck with a top shelf AGP card that still has life and you need to save some bucks, there are still mobos with AGP that will get you decent performance, but act fast as they are vanishing rapidly.
If upgrading the machine to a current mobo, you will be getting PCIe and a new vid card.

As far as actual difference between them...
X850XT PE AGP and Z850XT PE PCIe running Oblivion, the most demanding game out there right now, I see very little difference other than the overall speed and power of the two machines. The older AGP box is a lot slower to load and can't max the graphics settings as it is way under powered compared to the newer one but, rendering isn't all that much different.

[mylanta]

Here is another possibility as there are a few boards that take both so you could come in now with Agp and then buy new pci-express later....
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813138270

[dbarrow]

Beware the "transition period" mobos with both!
There was a period just at the introduction of PCIe with some dual boards with both PCIe and AGP slots.
The architecture of the PCIe slot was routed throught the PCI bus and did NOT provide the same bandwidth as true PCIe.
While intended to run a PCIe vid card, the result would be the same as running AGP and degrade performance.
These mobos didn't last very long and mostly have vanished.
This turned into an 'all or nothing' platform change and if you want to move up to PCIe, buy PCIe and a new high end PCIe vid card to go with it.

[mylanta]

Beware the "transition period" mobos with both!
There was a period just at the introduction of PCIe with some dual boards with both PCIe and AGP slots.
The architecture of the PCIe slot was routed throught the PCI bus and did NOT provide the same bandwidth as true PCIe.
While intended to run a PCIe vid card, the result would be the same as running AGP and degrade performance.
These mobos didn't last very long and mostly have vanished.
This turned into an 'all or nothing' platform change and if you want to move up to PCIe, buy PCIe and a new high end PCIe vid card to go with it.


That's why I posted the board I did. It actually has an "XGP" for Agp and handles most newer agp boards....Biostar changed it slightly to avoid what you are talking about and this is a current board I am using.

[jcampi]

Maybe you guys misunderstood or I didn't post my message clearly. I don't mind springing for the PCIe video card once I decide to build a PC. I was just asking what the differences are in terms of performance between AGP and PCIe for video cards. It seems like AGP is going the wayside and most hot new video cards are PCIe. I don't do much gaming, but do want good performance. I would most likely keep the video card a PCIe with about 128 Meg. of memory. The 256 Meg. cards seem too expensive.

[Dan18960]

John,

I have no trouble with my 128mb PCIe card - it is an EVGA I got from newegg (I THOUGHT I was getting the 256 at the time). It came with the DVI / VGA connection and it displays video, graphics, and text just fine.

I run it at the 1024 x 768 setting but could go out to 2048 x 1536 if I wanted everything to be small :eek:

[dbarrow]

It's all about the "plumbing" and size of the "pipe".
PCIe architecture change meant bigger pipe and better routing. More throughput with fewer bottlenecks. The PCI controller had maxed out on flow. PCIe has different architecture and direct routing to CPU for many things to bypass that bottleneck.

If you intend to do any heavy graphics or NEW 3D games, spring for the 256 PCIe cards as they are now being written to take advantage of the latest architecture. The more "work" done on the vid card GPU and vid ram, the less offloaded to the CPU.

For desktop applications ... no need.
For 3D graphics and games ... yes, spend the extra.

While some of the new games will/may run on lesser cards, you will miss a lot having to use lower settings.
Read the box! Some of the new games are listing minimum system specs that will shock you!
The rendering with some of the new game engines is OMG unbelievable fantastic.

[mylanta]

I always buy the 256 meg version and I have never played a game in any of my computers (except Solitaire and elf bowl to distraction). I am a photographer so I look for graphics as well as speed and you can jolt your system speed slightly by upping the ram in your video card. I learned in the "Middle Ages" of computing (when dialup 56k was king) to grab every ounce of speed possible, because you will give most of it back funneling through whatever pathetic bandwidth 56k actually gave you!