Internet Appliance Concept

[PeteF]

How unfortunate that your dad gave up, Pete. I can understand his frustration and surrender even though he has a computer-savvy son. You could not possibly be at his side to guide him every time he was at the computer.


Well, Dad (age 84) is in Florida and i'm in NJ and he was running Win98se on
a slow computer so there wasn't even an option for remote assistance.
Support over the phone was not easy either because he is on dialup.
Having NetZero was no joy either with their logon process.

I never saw one of those Internet Appliance PCs and I know the whole
concept died, so the best one could do now is to dumb down Windows
system and try to make it simple as possible for an 84 year old to operate.

Here's what I think a senior like my dad needs...

* Notebook PC that can be simply turned off without
having to press buttons on multiple pieces of hardware
like a desktop PC requires.

* Super fast computer and high speed internet connection.
I find that seniors often don't get the concept of clicking
and having to wait for the system to respond. On a slow
system they end up multiple clicking the same items and
that can create all sorts of chaos. So contrary to what
many might think, a senior would do best with a super fast
system. Having a system that's always on would also
go a long way to ease frustration.

* WinXP Remote assistance.
Too bad WinXP doesn't have an easy way to program into a single
Icon, a request for remote assistance. That's what my dad would
have required because the current system requires too many steps
and he's get confused.

* Dumb down the User Interface as follows:

- Use a single Icon on the desktop to SHUT DOWN WinXP.

- Use a single Icon on the desktop to RESTART down WinXP.

- Reduce the number of Icons on the desktop to the Browser Icon
and an Email Icon. Maybe some Icons that open the browser
and take him directly to some of his favorite websites.

- Have Yahoo Messenger automatically login to his account.

* All menus, system tray, and etc., must be static in that they
muct not change from day to day because that confuses the
hall out of people. A senior like my dad needs to see the same
exact screen each day to avoid confusion.

* And finally, if possible don't update anything!
A senior like my dad can't handle constant changes
because his memory is not so good anymore.

If anyone else out there has a elderly parent who might
be thinking about using a home PC, you can probably
relate to all this.

Let's not even get started on malware protection.:frusty:
Just setup Acronis and restore when they tell you it's
not running right. Hahahahhaa.

---pete---

[dbarrow]

In my profession as a Paramedic, dealing with "seasoned citizens" is my stock and trade. I frequently visit senior lving, assisted living, and all the way up to "senile storage".
You would be amazed at the number residences and even "facilities" where computers are present or readily available. I get a chuckle at the number of laptops I see parked on the nigh***and in bedrooms!
I was rather intrigued with a regular number of computer kiosk desks spaced in the hallways of one new "facility" I was in and when I asked a staff member about them, I was told they were for the residents and that they had regular computer classes available for them.

Don't sell our older citizens short....
Some (not all) have embraced technology and the computer as mental gymnastics to keep fit. I run across quite a few people over 80 who are not only sharp as a tack but interesting and funny as hell to talk to.
Of course, there is the darker side where I find myself visiting the vegetable patch.

There are those people who accept the challenge and master it and others, like my wife who is just now accepting email and can't figure out her cell phone, who don't want any parts of it. Heck, I know people in their 40's who still can't run a TV remote with any success!
I know a guy who makes a living setting up home theater systems for people who can't take the time to figure out how to plug all the parts together.

I believe, as I think Photolady has discovered, that there is a vast "customer base" out there for computer training and service for senior citizens out there struggling to keep up with it. M$ may be missing the boat for a Vista Senior with many of the items you suggest!

While "voice command" has never really taken hold, it is making steady progress in the disabled community and may well spill over into the senior sector sometime soon. The market and demand appears to be out there. As more of us who spent a majority of their lives in the computer age reach their senior years, that demand and market is going to grow rapidly.

Maybe we should open a "Senior Computing" forum to try and attract some of them who are too intimidated to ener other forums.

[Seth]

Current operating systems are far to complex for the average user, let alone the average senior. One can only shake there head in confusion when you have to click the large START button to turn off the computer. And as you said Pete, malware would be another nightmare. When the average senior is cruising the net and comes across, "You're computer is infected with spyware, click here to fix the problem", you can pretty much guarantee they're going to click there and install an onslought of malware.

More often than not, a senior basically requires a computer for internet access, email, and maybe some card games. An ideal operating system for such a scenerio would be something that is very basic and responds to voice commands. For example, when user wants mail, they would simply say "Get mail" and the mail program would open. Or if they wanted to search the web for cake recipes, they would say "Search the internet for cake recipes" and the websites would be displayed by number. Then they can choose what ever site they want by simply saying the number. Granted, it would take some time as the voice recognition software modifies itself to accomodate the users voice.

With that being said, a computer as we've described just isn't going to happen. Most people up to the age of about forty, are already familiar with the basic operation of a computer. Therefore, from a marketing perspective, the "seniors computer" is a waste of time and money, as that demographic isn't going to be around much longer.

[Dan18960]

Pete,

Since your dad is familiar with Windows 98, why don't you just setup an XP machine in classic mode? That would have the feel and touch of the ole Windows 98 with the ease of XP.

You can set the system to almost mimic a Windows 98 right down to the menu, folders, and icons.

I NEVER use the XP gui - I have all my units to classic and it is plug and play for any of the users who are using Windows 98 or Windows 2000.

And keeping one's mind active and learning is one of the "cures" of forgetfulness!

[mommalina]

Pete, I'd like to add one more suggestion for the optimal Internet Appliance -- and, while we're at it, for new desktop computers:

* An idiot-proof way to determine whether or not the computer is on or off.

A number of times I have pushed the ON button on the tower of my Dell 4550 and inadvertently turned off the computer .... :nono:!! The tiny pale green light that indicates the computer is on may fail to alert someone without 20/20 vision, who has senior moments or short-term memory problems.

I did not realize the computer was on, because it was either in hibernation or I had turned off the monitor. I solved that problem by turning off hibernation and standby (don't have to remember -- it's either on or off) and by purchasing an optical mouse (if the computer is on, the mouse is lit up).
So now I'm programmed to check to see if the mouse is lit up, and I no longer rely on or pay attention to the ON button. Works for me!

Doug wrote: Maybe we should open a "Senior Computing" forum to try and attract some of them who are too intimidated to ener other forums.

As much as I despise AARP for their role in passing the Medicare Part D bill, I have to give them credit for two things:

1. The AARP Learning and Technology Message Board**
http://community.aarp.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=rp-computers

2. The AARP online newsletter **. At times it includes news about computers as well as a variety of other subjects. You can register for the online AARP newsletter on this website: http://www.aarp.org/

Go to the righthand middle part of the page, and register here: Email Newsletter

Sign up for AARP news,
discount information,
tips for health living,
retirement planning and more

Your Email Address
Sign up now


**You don't have to be or become a member to use the message board or receive the newsletter.

I get the newsletter but have not used the message board. Maybe it would be a good place to mention our forum and PalTalk chatroom!

Lina

[dbarrow]

If memory serves me correctly...
You can create a BATCH file to execute SHUTDOWN.EXE and place an icon for it on the desktop.

Check the MSKB and search shutdown.exe and I think you will find it.

I remember doing that once but it had no practical value for me, nor do I keep icons on my desktop. (although you can also create a shortcut for it in a menu item as well)

[PeteF]

If memory serves me correctly...
You can create a BATCH file to execute SHUTDOWN.EXE and place an icon for it on the desktop.

Source:
http://www.techiwarehouse.com/cms/engine.php?page_id=37630212

Fast Shut Down Icon in XP

Buried deep inside Windows XP lurks a little-known program called shutdown that shuts down your system in a very fast — but orderly — way.

Here's how to put an icon on your desktop that'll shut down your machine quickly:

1. Right-click any empty location on your desktop.

2. Click New, Shortcut.

The Create Shortcut Wizard appears.

3. In the Type the Location of the Item box, type shutdown -s -t 0.

It's important that you put spaces before each hyphen, that you have no spaces after each hyphen, and that you use a zero at the end.

---end---

[PeteF]

Don't sell our older citizens short....
Some (not all) have embraced technology and the computer as mental gymnastics to keep fit. I run across quite a few people over 80 who are not only sharp as a tack but interesting and funny as hell to talk to.


I hear you. That's why I stated.. "seniors like my dad".
I didn't want to offend the many seniors that are still sharp as a tack.
My dad is still pretty sharp but it's just his short term memory is fading
and his ability to learn new things is diminishing. We tried to get him a cell
phone and that was a disaster. But, as we all know, there are many young
people that are technically challenged too and can't handle complex electronics.

Something puzzles me. We've all heard that a majority of people can't
program their video recorder to record a TV show in advance. Right?
Well how do these same people operate a cell phone? Most cell phones
require a 100 page manual to show all the features & options.

Personally I think most consumer electronics have become too
complex for the average user and most people never use a fraction
of the features.

---pete---

[PeteF]

[QUOTE=mommalina]I did not realize the computer was on, because it was either in hibernation or I had turned off the monitor. I solved that problem by turning off hibernation and standby (don't have to remember -- it's either on or off) and by purchasing an optical mouse (if the computer is on, the mouse is lit up).
So now I'm programmed to check to see if the mouse is lit up, and I no longer rely on or pay attention to the ON button. Works for me!
[/quote

Good solution. See, it's little things like that which go a long way
to helping someone with their PC. Computer experts will generally
have a difficult time thinking of those things because they use
the PC so intuitively. Thanks for the suggestion.

Another issue with seniors like my dad is that they can't get
used to the idea of keeping an appliance turned on all the time.
My dad sees those little green lights lit up and he wants to
shut it off to safe electricity. This concept of power saving
modes escapes him. So maybe another suggestion is to
put black electrical tape over the power status lights.

---pete---

[Dan18960]

Something puzzles me. We've all heard that a majority of people can't
program their video recorder to record a TV show in advance. Right?
Well how do these same people operate a cell phone? Most cell phones
require a 100 page manual to show all the features & options.
---pete---

I use my cell phone for ONE purpose - to make calls! I don't need someone text messaging me, I don't need 18 different ring tones, or use it as a camera!

It will do all those things - but I don't see the necessity of using them. If I want to talk to someone - I push in the number and dial. No need to send them text!

I don't care who is calling my phone (AND THEY BETTER HAVE MY PERMISSION!). The phone rings - I answer.

And IF I want to take pictures - I use a CAMERA!

Hey but that is just ME ;)

I like Lina's method too. I have one of the Logitech opticals and you can see the light from the side - don't even have to lift it up! :D

[dbarrow]

Having been through the "aging parents" thing, I know from whence you come ... stubborn is the name of the game!
Having to become the "parent" to your parent and a complete role reversal is tough but in many cases, they realize it is for their own good and accept it. It is often very comforting and reassuring for them, easing many of their concerns.

Especially for people who went through the Great Depression, hoarding money and being a spend thrift is just a part of them. I recall having that battle with my dad ... at 86 ... , having taken over the finances and control of the money, "Dad, you have more than enough in the pot. If you want it, need it, or deserve it, we buy it!" I went out and purchased whatever was necessary and he no longer complained. In fact, he actually got a kick out of just getting something for the sake of getting it because he wanted it, for the first time in many years!

Let him know the "cure" for the short term memory problem is exercizing his brain!
Believe it or not... a few of the fancy "Alzheimers" centers I visit actually do encourage and use computers. They may have to lock the residents in to keep them from wandering but they do provide computers, TV, and lots of books to keep them working their minds.
Short term memory problems can be really difficult as many of these people can't remember to put their pants on yet can rattle off crystal clear detail about an event in the 1940's. It's often very difficult to gauge "normal function" levels with many of them as one minute they are going on about something in great detail and the next, they can't remember your name or why you are there.

Do explore some of the newest medications that are proving effective in that area!

Distance makes it unlikely that you will have any success with another try on this as it needs constant re-enforcement and repetition. Unfortunately, you will soon face that challenge where "manged care" of some type becomes a reality you must face and the huge family squabble over tough decisions that have to be made.

I can't stress enough ... make these decisions now and resolve the legal aspects of them BEFORE you get between a rock and the hard place! Have that family meeting and resolve issues such as Living Wills and Advanced Directives, Power of attorney for medical decisions, DNR, DNI, DNH orders, and control of finances by ONE designated legal representative. If necessary, work this out with your dad and an attorney and get all documentation in order.

Having been that route, I really feel sorry for the many situations I encounter where lack of adequate planning and resoultion of these issues divides family members into bitter and ugly confrontations at a time when your parents need you the most.

Beware that most doctors don't have the balls to discuss these things with their elderly patients and love to dump the responsibilities on everyone else....

Seeking an "Elder Care" attorney who specializes in these matters is worth the money!

[PeteF]

I can't stress enough ... make these decisions now and resolve the legal aspects of them BEFORE you get between a rock and the hard place! Have that family meeting and resolve issues such as Living Wills and Advanced Directives, Power of attorney for medical decisions, DNR, DNI, DNH orders, and control of finances by ONE designated legal representative. If necessary, work this out with your dad and an attorney and get all documentation in order.


I know exactly what you are talking about. I have POA over my dad's
affairs now and we have addressed mostly all those documents you
mention, but it's a difficult situation because he is well enough to live
on his own, but not well enough to make sound decisions. He's very
strong willed too. We tried to keep him here in NJ but he demanded
I bring him back to FL. He was walking up to people in my town and
asking if they'd drive him back to FL. He could have succeeded, as
he is very resourceful. Oh boy, it's a long story.

---pete---

[PeteF]

Hey but that is just ME ;)


Hey, I think that's most people.
I can't help to think that there is a huge market for much simplified
electronics technology. Just like computers & software need it,
so do many consumer electronics. We need at least two
modes of operaton, novice & advanced. Most people would
be satisfied using the novice mode.

---pete---

[mommalina]

Pete wrote: Another issue with seniors like my dad is that they can't get
used to the idea of keeping an appliance turned on all the time.
My dad sees those little green lights lit up and he wants to
shut it off to safe electricity. This concept of power saving
modes escapes him. So maybe another suggestion is to
put black electrical tape over the power status lights.

What's the average wattage used by today's home computers? (It's too cumbersome and complicated for this old-timer to turn my Dell Dimension 4550 tower around to see if the wattage is listed on its side or back.)

I took Doug's suggestion and set things up to have my older MAG monitor automatically shut down after 20 minutes of inactivity. That done, leaving my computer on full power most of the day did not seem to increase my electric bill. Avoiding unneccesary wear and tear on the PC that frequent shutdowns would cause, makes the extra few cents for electricity worth it.

Pete, if your dad gives computing another chance, maybe you could calculate for him just how much electricity a computer would use if left on. It would probably be a hard sell, like trying to convince someone to replace an older dryer or refrigerator -- I was really surprised how much more energy-efficient my new ones are.

Lina

[mommalina]

Doug wrote: Especially for people who went through the Great Depression, hoarding money and being a spend thrift is just a part of them.......

It's not just the lingering effect of the Great Depression on some of us, Doug. We may have seen the exploitation of a parent by a trusted child. .... :evil: .... We may have seen a sibling exploit a parent and other members of the family powerless to do anything about it. The sibling may have Power of Attorney, and parent and sibling may live across the country, etc.

I've also seen some elderly who helped their children financially and were abandoned when they needed physical, emotional, and/or financial :help: . Some children experience hard times through no fault of their own and can't help, others just don't give a damn. Some of the elderly want to make sure we can pay for help if we need it.

Hoping one would keep the other in check, I named two of my seven children for Power of Attorney should I not be lucid. And I told all of them that if they did to each other or to me what a dear friend's children did to her, I would haunt ....:fear: .... them from the grave for the rest of their lives.

Unfortunately, that's why some of us are money hoarders and spend thrifts. .... :sad:

Lina

[PeteF]

What's the average wattage used by today's home computers?

I have an inline AC amp-meter and A couple of years ago, I measured a few
computers around my office with CRT Monitors. Very roughly speaking,
here's what I remember measuring.

*PC & Monitor ON..........................2.0amp.(2.0amps x 120volts = 240watts)
Cost to run this mode for 1 month @ 11cents per kwh = $20

*PC ON, Monitor power saving mode..1.0amp.(1.0amp X 120volts = 120watts)
Cost to run this mode for 1 month @ 11cents per kwh = $10

*PC & monitor in power save mode....0.5amp.(0.5 x 120volts = 60watts)
Cost to run this mode for 1 month @ 11cents per kwh = $5

---pete---

[mommalina]

I have an inline AC amp-meter and A couple of years ago, I measured a few
computers around my office with CRT Monitors. Very roughly speaking,
here's what I remember measuring.

*PC & Monitor ON..........................2.0amp.(2.0amps x 120volts = 240watts)
Cost to run this mode for 1 month @ 11cents per kwh = $20

*PC ON, Monitor power saving mode..1.0amp.(1.0amp X 120volts = 120watts)
Cost to run this mode for 1 month @ 11cents per kwh = $10

*PC & monitor in power save mode....0.5amp.(0.5 x 120volts = 60watts)
Cost to run this mode for 1 month @ 11cents per kwh = $5


Thanks for the information, Pete.

Without heater or air-condtioner in use, my electric bill is too low to include $20 or even $10 monthly to run my PC and monitor. And PECO charges one of the highest rates in the country for electricity.

Maybe today's PCs are more energy-efficient too?

Are the amps/volts/watts listed on any of your computers?

Lina

[PeteF]

Maybe today's PCs are more energy-efficient too?
Are the amps/volts/watts listed on any of your computers?


I'm not sure if it's listed on all computers because PCs are so configurable.
The monitor should have it's own rating. The CPU/box may have a rating
but probably not on a custom built PC.

The monitor type can be a big issue.
Typical CRT type (old style with big tube) is typically about 100 Watts.
Whereas the LCD Flat panel type is typically about 35 watts.

Calcualting your energy usage is so difficult becasue you'd have to
determine how many hours it's on in the various modes and calculate
from there.

---pete---

[Seth]

Check this (http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html) out. Scroll down for a comparison list.

[mommalina]

Check this (http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/howmuch.html) out. Scroll down for a comparison list.

Wow! What a great site! And it lists other interesting, valuable sites also.

Thanks, Seth.

Lina

[Seth]

Wow! What a great site! And it lists other interesting, valuable sites also.

Thanks, Seth.

Lina

You're welcome.

Back on the original topic:

Yesterday I did a service call for a senior couple using an old Patriot computer running win 98. They had Mcafee (useless), and never even heard of spyware/adware The computer was so infected with adware of all kinds that it was pretty much unusable. Even after clearing msconfig, the computer still took forever to boot with numerous errors in the process.

Trying to run IE opened a floodgate of popups. It was almost impossible to run a search, let alone get to the site you wanted. I took the computer with me and ran Spybot and Ad-Aware in a head-to-head test (Results to follow in the malware forum) before I clean installed.

Anyway, after the clean install I left Spybot and Ad-aware icons on the desktop, and informed them of their use and educated them as much as possible regarding safe browsing habits and what you shouldn't be "clicking" on.

As much as I helped them, I get the feeling that within a few months I'll be back there cleaning house again.

[PeteF]

As much as I helped them, I get the feeling that within a few months I'll be back there cleaning house again.

Good candidate for a web-based Email account and Acronis backup solution.
You get called back, you restore, you update as needed and get them
back and running quickly and for a cheap price. You'll then have a very
happy customer who will probably call you back for more of the same.

---pete---

[dbarrow]

I think Dan has a good practice here ... before you give them the machine, use an Acronis boot cd and image the system in a clean state. Store one copy on their HD and keep one in your customer records.

If they won't buy or use a backup system, at least you can quickly restore it to the condition you gave it to them in when they come back in a month.

[jcampi]

This may sound a little strange, but wouldn't web TV or a version of it be fairly easy for someone older and less experienced with computing?

[PeteF]

This may sound a little strange, but wouldn't web TV or a version of it be fairly easy for someone older and less experienced with computing?

To my knowledge, Web TV is not available anymore but MS offers MSN TV
which is similar to Web TV. I'm not sure but maybe MS bought out Web TV.
You can see demos here...
http://www.webtv.com/pc/

MSN TV sells for $200
I''m not sure what the monthly fee is or how it connects.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=1243214&sku=M17-7200

MSN TV might be a solution for some, but I still see more advantages
to customizing a WinXP Notebook PC for a senior. With WinXP you
could make it very simple, one icon for Email and a few icons that
open the browser and go directly to a few select websites.
One more icon to shut down the computer. Added advantage is
remote assistance.

---pete---