Home Network - Problem and Question

[Sam Ceccola]

I have 2 PC's in the same room that are both running Windows XP Professional SP2. I am using a wireless router but have wires going to both of the PC's.

I will refer to the PC's as "Old" and "New".
The new PC is my primary machine, the other one I set up for my wife. I used Network Wizard to create the Network and ran the wizard, as directed on both PC's. File Sharing and Printer sharing has been set up.

Using "My Network Places" on either PC, I see the other PC.

I went to the old PC, right-clicked on a folder called "Utilities" ; and then left-clicked on "Share and Security". Went back to the New PC, again My Network Places, and open the folder that was referring to the old PC. Utilities folder was there. So at this point, I think I can say I have established the network.

Problem: When I tried to Open this Utilities file from the New PC, I got an error message: "<old PC name>\\Utilities is not accessible. You might not have permission..."

I think the problem is being caused by Zone Alarm.

In ZA, within the FIREWALL group, on the MAIN tab, I clicked on "Advanced". There are several "Option (radio)" buttons dealing with Networking.

Questions:
I have no idea how to set these so that my Network works and I can keep ZA. Can anyone help?

In addition, when I tried to print something from the Old PC, the printer icon appears in the systray, the print job is placed in the buffer but nothing prints. If I use Start/Printer and Faxes/and double-click on the printer to get the status, it says "Printing". I don't know if this is related to the same problem above.

Is there anyway to see the "complete" system? For example: from the new system, see everything on the old or vice-versa without going through ever directory and marking it as "Shared". In other words, is there a short-cut to type in or check off that will make all files shared?

I appreciate your help,
Sam

[PeteF]

* Open Zone Alarm

* Firewall - Zones tab
Click Add, select.. IP Ranage

Enter the range for your network.
IP Address: 192.168.1.1
IP Address: 192.168.1.255
(Most times the above range will be your range.)

Enter a description: Sams Network
Click OK, and close ZA.

ZA will now allow your network to operate.

---pete---

[Sam Ceccola]

* Open Zone Alarm
ZA will now allow your network to operate.
--pete---

Pete:
Is the same to be done on both PC's? Is there anything that needs to be checked under the "Advanced" tag of ZA Firewall /Main?

Currently these are checked:
Automatically check the gateway security.
The computer is not on a ICS/Nat network.
Filter IP traffic over 1394
Allow VPN protocalls
Disable Windows Firewall
ASk which zone to place the new networks in upon detection
Automatically put new unprotected wireless networks(WEP or WPA) in the Internet zone.

[PeteF]

Pete:
Is the same to be done on both PC's?

Yes.

I can't answer your other questions because I only use the FREE version
and those are not options in the versions I'm familiar with.

---pete---

[Sam Ceccola]

Yes.
I can't answer your other questions because I only use the FREE version
and those are not options in the versions I'm familiar with.
---pete---
Pete: Thanks for the help. Maybe someone else can answer ite ZA questions?


Sam

[kelly]

First, let's try to pin point ZA as the culprit. Have you turned off ZA and tried accessing the other machine and printing?
-td

[dbarrow]

Do you have simple file sharing enabled or are you using NTFS permissions?
Did you create a share on the folder you want visible?
Did you select "everyone" for that share or specify users?

Shared Docs is a default sharing folder you should see on each machine and be able to access. If not, start by first disable/shut down ZA and see if you can access the folder.
The fact that you already can see the shared folders suggests it is a permissions problem and not a firewall problem.
You still need to add that IP RANGE to your TRUSTED ZONE in any case, or the IP of both machines and router.

It is not a good idea to create an open "everyone" share for the entire HD with full control. If your network is breached, "everyone" has full and unrestricted access to your entire system.

With NTFS permissions, a USER (Sam) must be present on both machines (with Admin rights) to have full control over a shared folder, ie: to move a file from "new" to "old"/shared docs, Sam must be logged on to "new" and there must be a Sam user on "old" and permissions must include "full control".

NTFS permissions can be a little confusing at first.
Explore to the folder that is shared.
Right click, open Properties/Sharing
Click Share this folder
Select users
Go to Security
Check each User and set permissions

Once you see the logic of NTFS permissions, you will understand how to set it, ie: Sam can see and move files, "wife" can see shares but can't move or modify files, or,
"wife" can't see share or files. It's all done with Permissions.

[Sam Ceccola]

First, let's try to pin point ZA as the culprit. Have you turned off ZA and tried accessing the other machine and printing?
-td
I turned ZA off on both PC's --same problem.

[dbarrow]

Ok, this is a PERMISSIONS problem and you will have to master creating shares and setting permissions.

Step one, make sure you have common USER on both machines with full access or enable 'Simple file sharing'

Visit MSKB or HELP for tutorials on File Sharing.

IF the files you wish to share contain any private information and you want to ensure security, I suggest mastering NTFS security rather than simple file sharing.
Should your network ever be invaded by a hacker, NTFS security permissions will prevent them from accessing shared files.
It is also useful to prevent other users from doing accidental damage to critical files.

[Sam Ceccola]

Do you have simple file sharing enabled or are you using NTFS permissions?

How do you tell?

[dbarrow]

TOOLS/Folder Options/View
Last item: Use Simple File Sharing

[Sam Ceccola]

Do you have simple file sharing enabled or are you using NTFS permissions?simple file sharing
Did you create a share on the folder you want visible?yes
Did you select "everyone" for that share or specify users?yes

Shared Docs is a default sharing folder you should see on each machine and be able to access. If not, start by first disable/shut down ZA and see if you can access the folder.They are visible by using Network Places
The fact that you already can see the shared folders suggests it is a permissions problem and not a firewall problem.
You still need to add that IP RANGE to your TRUSTED ZONE in any case, or the IP of both machines and router.Did this on both PC's.

Again same problem as stated in original post.

[kelly]

While troubleshooting, consider shutting down ZA (just in case).
-td

[Dan18960]

Sam,

I have posted 2 or 3 times very explicit steps in setting up a home network, but I think you have gotten yourself into a loop.

1) Are both systems running the same XP version? If NOT, you have 2 different networks. You have one that is MSHOME and one that is WORKGROUP. You need to need to change them both to the same "network". I use Workgroup for mine. DO NOT NAME THE NETWORK THE SAME AS ANY USER ON THE COMPUTERS. i.e. If you have a user SAM - you don't want to call the network SAM. That is "not" allowed.

2) It is NOT advisable to share at the ROOT of the C:\ drive. Make a folder, go into that folder and setup the folder(s) you want to see across the network. (I use SHARED and DATA for obvious reasons). Then Right click on the folder, Sharing and Security (I am on my W2k system but it is something like that), select "you know about sharing (or something along those lines)", and Share the folder with a unique name (mine are Shared and Data).

3) Make sure that the permissions is set to let EVERYONE have full access to the folders. Under Security, you should add EVERYONE and Administrators if they are not there and make sure to give them full access rights.

4) Make sure that both computers have a username that is the same and has Administrator rights.

5) Double click on My Network Places, Entire Network, Microsoft Networks (you will ONLY see these if you are set to Classic Folder mode - it is easier to do this if you do). You should now see the LAN network group. Double click on the Workgroup, select the computer where the folders are shared, and map your computer to those drives. I use J, K, L as a model. That way you are usually out of the peripheral range of drives on the systems.

6) Once you have setup the sharing on the same LAN network, seeing the folders and the printer should be automatic.

[Sam Ceccola]

Maybe I should start over again in setting up this network. Is there any easy way (need step-by-step instructions) to get rid of what I have setup in the network?

[PeteF]

Maybe I should start over again in setting up this network. Is there any easy way (need step-by-step instructions) to get rid of what I have setup in the network?

Use System Retore
See if you have a restore point just before you used that network wizard.

---pete---

[dbarrow]

You DO have file and printer sharing enabled in your network connections?

The Wizard works just fine ... run it again.
Make sure to name your workgroup the same on both machines.
Disable the firewall until you get the shares working and then make sure to add the IP range to the trusted zone.
Make sure you have a common USER with Admin privledge on BOTH machines.
Create and check your shares for PERMISSIONS and SECURITY and make sure your common USER has full permissions.
Share SPECIFIC folders, not an entire drive.

Remember... if you can SEE the share on the other machine in your network connections, you are connected.
You can't access it because of a PERMISSIONs or SECURITY setting.

[mylanta]

Sam,
Pete's point is good, but you do not need System restore just use Acronis True Image date from before you used wizard. Please try Doug's suggestion first as you have already set it, but Dan once showed me valuable lesson in not using network wizards, and I have never had a problem since, though I believe you will ultimately uninstall ZA to get it to work, irregardless of what anyone says. I conducted tests TY and LY with 15 firewalls, and none of them except for Sygate allowed VPN to function, if the firewall was installed at all. Disabling made no difference. There are those better at working with ZA than me but here was my experience and I will never forget it.
Most of the other firewalls (Kerio, Tiny etc) would not even let me access a browser. ZA did and with the security levers pulled down or even off, I could access the other pc's. The minute I cold booted the next day, that was the end of that and nothing I did enabled them ever again. It was far more important to me to communincate between my pc's, than it was to chase "windmills" which is frankly what I think firewalls are, and I retired all my efforts when I suddenly realized I have never read a post positive about anything a firewall ever did, only how they hose a system or make something inoperable. I have the best protection known to man so for me the Windows Firewall is just fine because I have nothing to dial out and never will and let's face it interdependance is a wonderful insurance. The Windows Firewall could not possibility allow such crap because they would have to fix it....

[dbarrow]

Sam, just follow the instructions ... it isn't complicated. You just missed something along the way.
One simple mistake in networking will drive you nuts trying to figure it out.

[Sam Ceccola]

...check your shares for PERMISSION and SECURITY....

Dan: how is this done? When I went to used Network Places and then right-click on the "ShareDocs" folder, the popup did not have an entry for Security.

I also checked the "Properties" area on the popup menu, nothing there either. I looked in the Folder Options / View saw nothing there that I had to check. By the way, "Simple file sharing" is setup for everything.

Sam

[dbarrow]

Open Explorer.
The FOLDERS you have SHARED will be marked with the icon that has the hand under it.
Right click on that folder
Select SHARING AND SECURITY tab
It will open the box to SHARING
It should be checked Share this folder
If you then check on the SECURITY tab, it will show which user accounts are listed.
As you highlight each one, the check boxes below will show their PERMISSIONS

I don't think you get all of this with Simple File Sharing.
With NTFS file sharing, you can make adjustments specific to each user who has access.

[Sam Ceccola]

The FOLDERS you have SHARED will be marked with the icon that has the hand under it.

None of my folders in Network places have the hand underneath. Hummmm, Am I creating in incorrectly? This is the way I am doing it:
- Create New Folder.
- Right-click on that folder
- On the pop-up menu, click on Sharing and Security.
- Then click (put a check mark in) Share this folder on a Network

[dbarrow]

Correct!
Once that is done, scroll down to My Network Places, open that up and choose the computer (name) you are on and it should show the shares you have created.
Go to the other computer(name) where you have created shares and they should show.

Next, click on one of those shares on the other computer.
If it fails to open, "inadequate permissions" , you have a permissions issue such as not having a USER matching yours with permissions on the other machine.

[casey]

I must admit I've just been glancing over this thread but today it struck me as I never could share the folder program files with the other computers because it's used by the operating system.Has anyone ever figured out how to get around that?

[mylanta]

Larry no need, what is it in Program Folders you would need to share?
If you have an individual program like Quicken, you can share that folder in the way sam suggested, it's just you cannot share the entire Program Files folder is all.

[casey]

Rich, I never thought of that. All this time when I wanted something in program files I would just copy it out to the root directory so I could see it on another computer and then delete it when I was finished. Like I said , you learn something every day.

[Sam Ceccola]

If it fails to open, "inadequate permissions" , you have a permissions issue such as not having a USER matching yours with permissions on the other machine.

On the NEW PC I have 3 users:
- a Guest
- ASP.Net Machine A...
- Samuel Ceccola (Administrator)

On the old PC, I have 2 users:
- A Guest
- Samuel Ceccola (Administrator)

Having the same Administrator's name on each, is that causing the problem?

[Sam Ceccola]

Having the same Administrator's name on each, is that causing the problem?

I change the Administrator's name on the Old PC. Reran the Network Wizard.

Still have the same problem.

[casey]

Rich,

I tried what you said and made a sub-folder in Program Files, shared and gave it a name but how do you get to it when Program files says Program files is not accessible:Access is Denied.. Maybe I'm just not looking at the right place..Just to let you know my network works fine...

[mylanta]

Rich,

I tried what you said and made a sub-folder in Program Files, shared and gave it a name but how do you get to it when Program files says Program files is not accessible:Access is Denied.. Maybe I'm just not looking at the right place..Just to let you know my network works fine...

Larry,
I didn't mean to make a subfolder, just take the folder in Program Files, i.e. Quicken and right click it and allow sharing. Then it will show in the icon of that pc on the other one and you can open it and use it.

[mylanta]

I change the Administrator's name on the Old PC. Reran the Network Wizard.

Still have the same problem.

No Sam, you need to have the same user on each pc...same workgroup name etc...
If you are about done with other "solutions", you could try restore with Acronis to before you used the wizard and then follow Dan's instructions.
You may also have to uninstall ZA as well, I have to.

[casey]

Sam, I'm sorry I got involved in your thread:

Let me just say that 90% or better of the time I can't see another computer it had something to do with the firewall...

Rich,
I think your misunderstanding me. I'm looking at it as C:/ProgramFiles/ folders(different names) the folders in Program Files are sub folders to me. I shared and named a folder in Program Files but when you look for it in another computer it's no where to be found. Because it's still under program files which you cannot get access to.
This is no big thing to me as I was just wondering. Help Sam. I'll play with it a bit more tomorrow. Oh by the way I didn't create anything as I used a folder already in program Files...

[mylanta]

Sam, I'm sorry I got involved in your thread:

Let me just say that 90% or better of the time I can't see another computer it had something to do with the firewall...

Rich,
I think your misunderstanding me. I'm looking at it as C:/ProgramFiles/ folders(different names) the folders in Program Files are sub folders to me. I shared and named a folder in Program Files but when you look for it in another computer it's no where to be found. Because it's still under program files which you cannot get access to.
This is no big thing to me as I was just wondering. Help Sam. I'll play with it a bit more tomorrow. Oh by the way I didn't create anything as I used a folder already in program Files...

Larry,
I just did it in Program Files, Quicken, and then opened the Quicken files on another pc and copied them to this one.

[casey]

Microsoft says:

How to Share and Set Permissions for Folders and Files Using Windows XP

Note The Sharing option is not available for the Documents and Settings, Program Files, and Windows system folders. In addition, you cannot share folders in other users’ profiles

[casey]

Sam are you mapping the drives?

I see what you guys are doing, I put an icon for the mapped drive on the computer where you guys are
using My network.

Why don't you have Sam map a drive and see if he can get to the folders that way?

Maybe I'm not explaining this right but it seems like it should work for him..

[casey]

Rich,

I see what you are saying. You guys use MY Network where I map the whole drive and place an icon on my computer. I see now where the shared folders in Program files will show up as separate folders from the drive. I then mapped the folder and it popped right up.

Maybe it would be easier for Sam if he started by mapping the whole drive and see if he can get to the folders that way. You should get Sam to map his drive on one of the machines and see what happens..

Learn something new every day.

[Sam Ceccola]

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon: NEWS FLASH

I got it.

Further down in the error message I was receiving concerning the Permission, I saw that a possible problem could be the IRPStackSize. I did a Google on the message "Not enough server storage is available to process this command"

I found a resolution and that is to increase the size of IRPStack. I follow the instructions and "Low and behold" it worked.:lock1:

Thanks for your patience and help.
Sam

[Sam Ceccola]

I speak with "forked tongue" The files are shared but the printer is not working from the old PC.

[mylanta]

I speak with "forked tongue" The files are shared but the printer is not working from the old PC.

You may have to install the driver in the old machine and then lead it to the network location of the printer.

[dbarrow]

Start/Settings/Printers &Fax
Find the printer you want to share and click on the sharing tab.
Go through the same process as sharing a folder and set up the printer as a shared printer
The machine the printer is NOT on must have the printer drivers. Usually, XP will detect the printer and hardware wizard will kick in and install the drivers for it when you select it to print to, otherwise, install the printer driver from the printer installer cd.

In the Printer settings for the machine that does NOT have the printer attached, select the shared printer as a default printer.

If you have more than one shared printer, the print box will have a selection for each shared printer when you go to print, you still must choose one as default.