Other computer opportunities.

[Seth]

Like myself, many of you run a computer repair business. Have you ever thought of other ways to make money with your computer knowledge?

One idea I might look into is investing. For example, a few days ago I mentioned that with the merger of AVG and Ewido, I would invest all I could in their shares if they were on the open market.

[kelly]

I haven't thought of investing. All the tech stocks I own aren't doing well.

Here's something I was thinking of: The library in Exton offers free beginner classes in Computer Use, Internet, Word, and Excel. They're offered in the Spring and Fall. They are very basic. They always fill and have to turn people away. So here's what I thought: Offer more advanced classes and teach them yourself. You can rent a meeting room at the library for $65. Get 12 people to sign up at $10 ea and your have a profit. Additionally you can promote your own business.
- Tony D

[mylanta]

Here's something that I do with clients.
Ever go back with a repaired pc and then begin to explain the problem the solution and how to avoid recurrence and realize you are getting a look like you are speaking in Martian to them? When that happens I offer them a 3 hour private tutoring session explaining Windows Basics...then I take hourly rate and reduce it by $30 ($10 an hour) total to call it a "learning special" and explain they can do it as 3- 1 hour sessions or 1 -3 hour session. I sell it as an add-on to todays invoice only, paid for today.
You would be amazed how many people pay it immediately. It's extra money for easy work, and up front working capital besides.
I tried adding it to my add and I began getting calls from really dopey users with Windows 98 and I explained it wasn't for them. I didn't want to go there and spend 3 hours getting their pc to run right to work at a reduced rate teaching them how they screwed it up.

[Pi rules]

Lessons sound like a good idea for you guys at least.

I was thinking about building customized computers for people, but how much do you charge for it? 5%? I'm not even sure if I could find anyone interested in paying a 17 year-old to build them a computer.

Most of the time I just do free repairs to relatives, should I consider putting an ad in the paper or something for computer repairs? I could do it for cheaper than some in my area, but do I really know enough?

I read something interesting yesterday (NY Times technology section???) about companies that will make books for you for a reasonable price. Has anyone considered writing a short book with tutorials and things and selling them to customers? I might try it, but again, who would buy a 17 year-old's book? And, I don't have any "customers" to sell it to.

Edit: Found the article here (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/20/technology/20basics.html?_r=1&oref=slogin). I think I'll make a new thread about this in Other Topics.

[mylanta]

I do get sone new builds now and then, but more where I take out a dead pc that will costtoo much to repair and sell them one of my rebuilds, then rebuild theirs to see tomorrow.

[PeteF]

Like myself, many of you run a computer repair business. Have you ever thought of other ways to make money with your computer knowledge?


I don't know about everyone else, but 90% of my business comes
from PCs that are messed up due to malware. Eventually the malware
problem will be reduced so many of must begin to plan now how we
will make up for the lost business.

I'm in the malware cleanup business by default. I had originaly started my
computer business advertising services such as custom programming,
computer lessons, and other services that more involve *using* a computer
as opposed to repairing PCs. Then the calls started coming in and most
people wanted their slow computers fixed. Now I wonder what will happen
if there comes a day when malware is no longer an issue that requires
hiring an expert to fix it.

To answer your question, I think we need to branch out and offer
services that expand beyond the computer. For example, we need
to include services related to setup and operation of electronic
systems that interface with the computer. Such services such as
effectively using cameras, camcorders, and entertainment systems,
either by themselves or used in conjunction with the computer.

---pete---

[Dan18960]

I was thinking about building customized computers for people, but how much do you charge for it? 5%? I'm not even sure if I could find anyone interested in paying a 17 year-old to build them a computer.


First off - you would be competing with DELL, Gateway, HP, Sony, Toshiba, and others out there that can get the parts for less UNLESS you are in a niche area - maybe Gamers. But then most of them build their own anyway. Price is more a battle than an opportunity. Plus how are you going to warranty your computers? How are you going to service them?

We sell computers and make less than 1% on the hardware - where we make the profit to make payroll, insurance, taxes, and other overhead is with service.

Pete,

You won't have to worry about EVER being out of the cleaning business as long as there is Norton, McAfee, and others out there. They sometimes go out of their way to trash systems and Vista is already being reversed engineered to be hacked the minute it is released to the masses.

[mylanta]

Pete,

You won't have to worry about EVER being out of the cleaning business as long as there is Norton, McAfee, and others out there. They sometimes go out of their way to trash systems and Vista is already being reversed engineered to be hacked the minute it is released to the masses


Yeah I couldn't agree more and actually with all the forums and "guru's" pushing Avg and Avast, I think the picture gets even rosier and you also have to remember, nothing Microsoft, AoHell, Verizon and all those monkeying with virus and spyware control has in any way improved the situation, in fact, if anything spyware problem is getting worse and the consumer, mostly doesn't even know what spyware is even today.

[dbarrow]

It is totally impossible to engineer out "stupid".
So long as the human factor is involved, malware will never be stamped out.
So long as there is big money in it, there will always be a scam, sham, trick or dupe of somekind that some fool will fall for.

[Seth]

Wow...impressive responses as usual:)

I don't think malware will go away in our lifetime. Now with the advent of rootkits, I get the feeling we're all going to be performing a lot more clean installs.

I've thought about teaching as well. I wouldn't teach at the beginner level though. I just don't have the patience to teach someone the absolute basics.

I also thought about offering each of my customers E-mail support for a small monthly fee. Whenever they have a question or concern, they would just e-mail me and I would e-mail them back with the answer. Although my morality inhibits me from doing this considering free computer help forums.

The main reason I wrote the original post, is because I don't think us computer repair techs make enough money compared to what we have to know, as well as the type of service we provide. I mean we have a respectable hourly rate, but competition is stiff and the hourly rate is somewhat meaningless unless you're constantly busy.

[PeteF]

I don't think malware will go away in our lifetime. Now with the advent of rootkits, I get the feeling we're all going to be performing a lot more clean installs.

I still think we have to begin planning years in advance what we will
do if the need for malware cleaning services decreases. Over time
people will get smarter about avoiding malware in the first place and
eventualy, restoring the system to a previous clean state will be
come a one button operation that even a novice could perform.

See, I never said that malware would go away, only that the
*problem* would decrease and not require an expert to fix.

The idea that PC service techs will always be needed to the
extent we are today for cleaning malware is probably more
wishful thinking than reality. That's why I think we need to
be looking in other directions. Just my opinion. :peace:

---pete---

[Seth]

Good point Pete.

[Sam Ceccola]

Some of you are talking about teaching. After I retired back in '95, I did part-time contract teaching at all levels. Teaching needs to be in your blood - you got to love doing it mainly because of the "patience factor".

Even though I taught the computer environment professionally during my working career, the way I got started once retired, was to apply at local colleges to do Adult Education. I was hired by Penn State and Chestnut Hill College.

I used the term Adult Education before but most of the classes were corporations sending a group of their people to learn a specific subject. The reason I mention this, is to let you know, this area seemed to have dried up.

I then started to do the "College" classes where by the students needed the subject to fulfill their curriculum needs. This is one area your "your patience" factor comes into play. You get students "who care", "who want to learn" but then you get the opposite. There only there because they need to.

If you love teaching, do it. If I may give one piece of advice. I always told the students the first day of class -"Anyone who tells you they know everything about a subject, in my eyes, is a fool, a liar, or full of it. If I don't know an answer to a question, I'll tell you I don't know but I will also tell you, I'll do my best to find out and have an answer for you".

Again, it's a great profession.
Thanks for letting me share my opinion.
Sam

[PeteF]

It is totally impossible to engineer out "stupid".
So long as the human factor is involved, malware will never be stamped out.
So long as there is big money in it, there will always be a scam, sham, trick or dupe of somekind that some fool will fall for.

db, I tend to agree with you but for different reasons. Yes,
the issue is money! Malware is currenty a major driving force
in the computer industry. It drives sales of products & services
for the spyware & adware creators, it drive profits for computer
repair service businesses, it drives sales of new PCs & software,
and so much more.

Malware is to the computer industry like cancer is to the medical
industry. Both are a multi-billion dollar industry which means that
there is much motivation within the industry to prevent a cure.
This is why I tend to believe that malware will be allowed to
propogate even though it is curable. There will always be an
outward appearance that the problem is being addressed but it
will never be cured. There's just too much money to be lost if
the problem was ever totally cured.

---pete---

[mommalina]

Sam Ceccola wrote: ..... If I don't know an answer to a question, I'll tell you I don't know but I will also tell you, I'll do my best to find out and have an answer for you".

Wonderful, Sam. My best teachers, professors, and military instructors/leaders had that philosophy.

In the 70's, I attended evening college with many mature adult students. A professor belittled and refused to answer a veteran because his question was "too elementary." The veteran let him have it and told him he fought to defend this country so that clown could stand up there and teach and answer questions. He demanded an answer....and got it!

A math instructor once gave me a dumb answer to a dumb question I asked (who invented the decimal system?). I researched it and gave him my answer during the next class. I told him (a fellow Italian-American) it was an Italian joke....the Romans discovered they had ten fingers and had to find something to do with them.

Lina

[Dan18960]

Over time people will get smarter
---pete---

ROFLMAO

Pete,

IN MY LIFE time - I have seen:

Cashiers can no longer count change backwards - had an occasion recently where a clerk could not figure out $4.04 from $5.00! They had to get out a calculator to do the "math".

I have REPEATEDLY cleaned (actually now I just re-image their drive) a computer that gets malwared to death FROM COLLEGE STUDENTS! And each time I remind them NOT to download every popup that they see (they actually disable Admuncher to get them!). And these "kids" are 4.0 gpa! And they are NOT the exception - I have seen this in a LOT of young people going to college. And you wonder why I don't and WON'T hire a college graduate!

People who can't read a map or don't know how to tell north, east, south, or west from the sun.

And the examples go on and on. So I don't see "us" getting smarter - we depend on MACHINES to do our thinking and as long as there are hackers, the tech life will always be busy.

As for rates - we are our own enemy. EVERYONE deserves a fair wage for what they know, do, and can answer. "We" get $125.00 an hour. I make no excuses, accept no criticism, and make no compromises. I am worth every cent. I have followed more than my share of $50.00 an hour techs and done in half the time what they were suppose to accomplish, even after doing some of the things they did initially.

I have spent years learning what I know, I spend hours learning what I need to know, and spend days researching what has to be accomplished. This is my profession. I don't play games, I don't PLAY with computers, and I sure as heck am NOT going to compromise MY knowledge to just chase a client.

I have clients call and think they are doing me a favor by knowing how to dial a phone - I make it very clear! Yes, I would like to have a new client, yes, I will be able to provide you with service, and NO I WON'T LOWER MY RATE! I am BUSY without you BUT if you find in the future you need my service to get you up and running, please feel free to call me back. Most of the times I do get that call back after one of the "cheaper" techs has completely screwed up the network, the computer, the printer, etc, etc, etc.

NOW can EVERYONE charge my rate? No! There are areas where my rate is out of the economic line - BUT the rate that would be comparable to mine is what should be charged IF YOU ARE THAT PROFESSIONAL!

One thing I think we should realize in our ratings - Wal-Mart doesn't charge one price in Philly and another price in Pot***own - If I walk into a Wal-Mart most likely the product is going to be the same price at either store. If I order a Dell in NYC, it is going to be the same price in Punta Gorda FL. Now I know that services are more economic based than these examples - but the thought here is that SERVICE only has a value while we preceive there is a value to charge for. So, look at the professionals in your area and charge accordingly. Do NOT think that you are charging to much - you are NEVER CHARGING ENOUGH!

A common marketing theme - and I didn't even have to go to college for this one - is:

If they are NOT complaining about your rate - then you are NOT charging enough! Because if they are calling you, complaining about your rate, AND still asking you to do the service, you are at that PROFESSIONAL status.

Think about it - how many of us complain about our doctors bills - but still go to that SAME doctor? How many of us complain about fuel charges but still go to the SAME gas station? How many of us complain about the cost to repair our cars, but still go to the SAME mechanic? Must I go on? ? ? ?

[PeteF]

ROFLMAO

Pete,
IN MY LIFE time - I have seen:
Cashiers can no longer count change backwards - had an occasion recently where a clerk could not figure out $4.04 from $5.00! They had to get out a calculator to do the "math".

I have REPEATEDLY cleaned (actually now I just re-image their drive) a computer that gets malwared to death FROM COLLEGE STUDENTS! And each time I remind them NOT to download every popup that they see (they actually disable Admuncher to get them!). And these "kids" are 4.0 gpa! And they are NOT the exception

Dan, what you describe above is not what I'm experiencing with my
customers. Sure, I ocasionally get that, but overall, once someone
gets hit hard by spyware and viruses and a big bill to repair it, they
generally learn from the experience. Where I see repeat offenders
is where you have a whole family of young kids using the PC who
never get the education about how to avoid malware.

I spend consideralbe time teaching them how to avoid malware in the
first place and also how to use the tools I've installed so they can
maintain a clean system. So overall, I am seeing people get smarter
about this entire malware issue. Not only that, but I'm also finding
more and more that people can get help from friends and neighbors
for fixing a malware infested computer. It's becoming common
knowledge. Yes, the people are getting smarter, especially the people
who are members of this forum and other forums like this one.

---pete---

[mylanta]

Actually my experience here is like pete's as well where I seldom go back for the same reason, but remember, for pete and me, this is the client's equipment. For Dan, the user is using employer equipment and that is different.

[Pi rules]

I've seen computers after being on a college network (without a software firewall :cry:). That's one reason I recommend ZA or something other than XP's firewall. It simply isn't enough protection, especially on certain college networks with all the malware circulating there. They just need better education about preventing malware.

[Dan18960]

Actually my experience here is like pete's as well where I seldom go back for the same reason, but remember, for pete and me, this is the client's equipment. For Dan, the user is using employer equipment and that is different.

Thanks Rich, you are correct - my clients are NOT the home user but business equipment where the user doesn't care if they hose a system - it isn't "their" money (or so they think!).

So Pete if you develop your business model into the business clientele, you will have job security for YEARS to come!

[kelly]

I wear a variety of hats in my business. Between all of them I somehow make a living. Like Pete, I started teaching in homes, then people wanted their machine fixed, then they wanted to buy stuff from me. So I'm now doing all of these.

However, I have 2 customers who I work for almost every week. I put together presentations for one. For the other I install and support sites as a sub contractor. I was called to one just this morning. These 2 guys provide about 80% of my income.

I also have a good customer who I started with because he needed someone who could do FileMaker development. This lead to sales of toner and ink. Additionally, I've helped him put together proposals for his business. I've installed computers and printers for this guy. He has me over about once a month just to make sure his computers are up to date and clean.

I would eventually like to focus on one service, but right now, I have to use them all.

- tony d

[dale@fcg]

Seth wrote:
I also thought about offering each of my customers E-mail support for a small monthly fee. Whenever they have a question or concern, they would just e-mail me and I would e-mail them back with the answer. Although my morality inhibits me from doing this considering free computer help forums.

Seth,
It would certainly be a worthwhile venture and quite on the up and up (imho) to go ahead and charge for tech support via Email under the guidelines you mentioned above. If someoene can be helped via email, why not let them pay you to help them? How is that different than you being on site?

As for the free help forums, that is another option someone could use, but if someone pays you to help them, you'll give them the personal, one on one help that will be specific to their situation. You know your customers' systems, you know their tendencies, you know their personalities, and you know how to explain things in a way they'll understand. On a help forum they'll get good suggestions and help, but they may or may not understand it,and their is no way they can hold the posters accountable. I'd say go for it, man.:drum:

[Seth]

Thanks Dale. I never thought of it that way.

One could also add that on these free computer support forums, there are many "questionable" helpers.

[dale@fcg]

Pi wrote:
I might try it, but again, who would buy a 17 year-old's book? And, I don't have any "customers" to sell it to.


Pi,
Your humble personality is a breath of fresh air in this world full of teenage know it alls. As for people buying from a 17 year old, I realize your plight, but keep your head up and allow your honesty and good work build your reputation. Maybe building new pc's will come after you show that you are really good at fixing up, speeding up, etc. the old ones. And don't be surprised if the people that get you to fix the old ones take your suggestion to have you build them a new one. In any case, keep your eyes open and a positive attitude.

[Seth]

Dale,
That post deserves a :clap2: and a :first:.

...and for good measure a :flypig: .

Hmmm. Where can I buy me one of those?:D

[dale@fcg]

One could also add that on these free computer support forums, there are many "questionable" helpers.

Except on this forum, of course :wacko: :doh:

[PeteF]

Seth,
It would certainly be a worthwhile venture and quite on the up and up (imho) to go ahead and charge for tech support via Email under the guidelines you mentioned above. If someoene can be helped via email, why not let them pay you to help them? How is that different than you being on site?


Charging for Email support is difficult because it's hard to put a number
on just how much to charge. I have more luck with charging for phone
support and support via remote assistance because the customer can
see exactly how much time is spent when the service is rendered.

---pete---

[dale@fcg]

Phone support requires one to be available within certain times on call (don't want to frustrate customer with voice mail and "I'll call you back"). Remote Assistance requires user to be at pc at a time convenient for both. These are good support options, but Email is a great option because steps can be laid out clearly for many basic things like downloading and installing an app/utility or running an online scan from ewido or bitdefender. Not having to make a sales call will save customer money and techie time.

A flat fee for x amount of cases with option for techie to decide at what point a case is no longer resolvable via email with a sales call being required.