Strange net connection issue, help?

[mikehende]

A friend of mine bought a Dell laptop 2 weeks ago and got Verizon DSL, my wife did everything for her getting her setup with verizon and the net and everything was working fine until a few days ago, now the connection [even when connected directly to the modem] is extremely slow and she can't get any wireless connection outside her door.

I went to her apartment and called up verizon, 3 different techs on 3 separate occasions took control of her pc and tried many different things, they did a line speed test and it turned out ok, all lights on the modem is always solid so finally they told me that this has got to be a windows problem so I should call Dell for help as their connection does not show any issues, I took my laptop and connected it to the modem and same problem, I then took her laptop to her neighbor upstairs and connected it to their verizon DSl modem and the connection is perfect so all of this tells me that the laptop itself is not at fault but again, Verizon's connection shows to be working perfect.

I asked them to send someone over to her apartment to get this problem resolved, they said they don't that so I told her to go with another DSL provider but before doing so, I would like to ask what you guys make of this situation please, any advice/opinions will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[kelly]

Well, you proved the computer works; you removed the router from the equation; Verizon thinks the line is good. I think maybe it's the DSL modem.
- tony

[mikehende]

With all lights being solid, can the Modem still be the cause of the problem Tony?

[dbarrow]

So far, your testing suggests a modem problem.
Have you shutdown and rebooted the modem?
If you run Ping Plotter or tracert, are you showing any significant lags?
Did you visit DSLreports.com and check the Verizon forums?
Good idea to search there (and run a forum search by her modem model/number to see if there are any known/reported problems with it)

[mikehende]

So far, your testing suggests a modem problem.
Have you shutdown and rebooted the modem?
If you run Ping Plotter or tracert, are you showing any significant lags?
Did you visit DSLreports.com and check the Verizon forums?
Good idea to search there (and run a forum search by her modem model/number to see if there are any known/reported problems with it)

Did not get that far yet Doug:) , I began Network+ only yesterday afternoon, wish it had come along after I am done with MM's book but maybe this may have come along at a good time so I'll get some practical experience before I encounter it in MM's Network+ book. I will try ALL of your suggestions and get back to you guys, thanks!

[kern]

A friend of mine bought a Dell laptop 2 weeks ago and got Verizon DSL...everything was working fine until a few days ago, now the connection [even when connected directly to the modem] is extremely slow and she can't get any wireless connection outside her door.
...I took my laptop and connected it to the modem and same problem, I then took her laptop to her neighbor upstairs and connected it to their verizon DSl modem and the connection is perfect....

sounds like a faulty modem. check to see if there is a firmware upgrade for that modem. otherwise, call verizon, describe what you have done (above), and ask for a new modem.

[dbarrow]

Mike, as part of your networking studies, this is the kind of problem you really need to grasp and get a good understanding on as you are likely to see it many times over.

I know there is a post here somewhere where we discussed some of these things in detail. Don't recall what it is under.

Step 1: Is it you or is it them?
The first part of troubleshooting a connectivity problem is to determine if it's on your end or something on their end.
You have already done that by connecting with another (known good) machine and verified that the suspect machine isn't the problem.

Step 2: It's them, where and what
Now that you know the machine is ok, time to start working from the modem on up.
Your networking books will tell you how to run tracert and pings with switches to determine latency.
A much easier way is to run a GUI interface program like Ping Plotter where a graph will quickly show you where the packets are hitting a wall.
If you can see that the modem is getting through to the next hop to the local node and the lags are above that, the problem is in their system.

Sometimes (lazy) Tech support on their end will be quick to tell you it's your problem because you are connected and therefore it isn't theirs. However, when you confront them with "Ping Plotter is showing your X hop (identify by the URL it shows) is where the lag is, you often get bumped up to a higher level tech who actually looks at your connection status and can see the same problem as you. Then, after a "hang on a minute" you may suddenly get apologies and "Oh yeah, we are working on a problem in that node."
Tech Support attitudes vary greatly once they know you know what you are talking about...

Step 3: DLSreports forums
If you go there and go to the specific forum: Verizon or Comcast, etc. you will often find tons of information you would otherwise never be aware of.
Comcast has Techs who regularly hang out on their forum and address issues with correct answers to keep them from getting blown out of proportion.
Not like anyone is going to call you up and tell you XYZ modem sucks and has all kinds of problems ... you find it in the forum, along with justification to take it back and demand a replacement.
You will also often find a wealth of information on various tweaks to vastly improve your connection speeds and throughput from really smart people on these forums.

Step 4: DLSreports tests
While you are there, there are quite a number of very good utilities and tests you can run that may help you find your answers.

As a very long time Comcast customer, I have learned that if you have a reasonable amount of knowledge of the subject and have run all your appropriate tests before you call, you generally get a very high degree of competent Tech Support, in a very friendly manner, working as hard as they can to resolve your problems vs. the "average" customer who has no clue and calls up ranting and raving and who quickly gets blown off. I think the purpose of Tier 1 Tech Support is idiot screening. Pass the test and get above that and you usually have a very good Tech Support experience.

[mikehende]

I could just ask for a new Modem but I will try out all of this great info which I will definitely utilize just to gain the experience and knowledge, thanks!

[mikehende]

Your networking books will tell you how to run tracert and pings with switches to determine latency.
A much easier way is to run a GUI interface program like Ping Plotter where a graph will quickly show you where the packets are hitting a wall.


Doug, I am not scared to do this, just have to wonder if I may be placing the cart before the horse here? Meaning, I have only gotten to the 2nd chapter and I don't know if I should skip stuff and go straight to the tracert and ping? If you were in my shoes would you ask for a replacement Modem first and then try the tracert and ping if the new modem doesn't do it?

[mikehende]

Please disregard above post Doug, doesn't look like this will be too difficult to run the tracert and ping, will get back to you.

[dbarrow]

I would go armed with proof the modem has a problem...
First thing is shutdown the modem for several minutes and start it up again. Let it connect and go through any connection process. Don't know about Verizon DLS but Comcast can "provision" modems with any firmware or system updates when they connect. It is a routine process.

Look up the modem and see if there are any firmware updates, dl and have ready to apply.
You need to access the modem.
I don't know what the process is for a Verizon DLS modem but you need to know this and go into the modem menu for any tests/settings that you may be able to access.
Importantly, they usually contain an ERROR LOG that may pinpoint the problem then and there.

I would dl and run Ping Plotter (free) and look at the first connections ... your machine to the modem and the modem to the first hop. A big latency spike there would show a bad modem.

If any of the above show an immediate problem... take the modem to the nearest Verizon service center, with your evidence, and demand a replacement.

[mikehende]

I am familiarizing myself with tracert and ping as we speak on my machine so I will have a better idea what to do when I go to her place, will do everything here first before going to her.

[dbarrow]

One small thing you forgot to mention...
You talked about wireless...
How is the wireless being supplied?
Is this a combination wireless router/modem or is there a router between the machine and the modem?

One small mistake in settings could be the entire problem.
Can you access the router settings?

[mikehende]

Oh sorry, yes, it is a combo router/modem. I haven't had any experience with Router settings. Just ran both a tracert and ping on my machine here at home, the Ping I think I understand, it reads

Packets Sent=4 Received=4 Lost 0 [0% loss]

Approximate round trip times in milliseconds:
Minimum= 89ms Maximum=91ms Average=90ms


What should I make of this info? Than since no packets were lost, that all is ok? If so, what about the round trip times, what should I know about that?

[kern]

Oh sorry, yes, it is a combo router/modem. I haven't had any experience with Router settings. Just ran both a tracert and ping on my machine here at home, the Ping I think I understand, it reads

Packets Sent=4 Received=4 Lost 0 [0% loss]

Approximate round trip times in milliseconds:
Minimum= 89ms Maximum=91ms Average=90ms


What should I make of this info? Than since no packets were lost, that all is ok? If so, what about the round trip times, what should I know about that?

one method is to do a comparison test of your own if possible. run tracert and ping on your friends pc, and on her neighbors pc to compare results.

[mikehende]

GREAT idea Rob, will do, thanks!

[kern]

GREAT idea Rob, will do, thanks!\

keep in mind that Verizon offers DSL in different "speeds"...

[mikehende]

This I didn't know, I would think there would be only one speed becuase any sane person would want the highest speed or am I nuts:D ? Just for the knowledge, why would they offer different speeds?

[Terry Hanushek]

Mike

Rob commented: keep in mind that Verizon offers DSL in different "speeds"...
Mike responded: This I didn't know, I would think there would be only one speed becuase any sane person would want the highest speed or am I nuts:D ? Just for the knowledge, why would they offer different speeds?
One word: Cost Verizon has recently introduced a lower speed service at a reduced price. Depending on the intended use, a 768K DSL service may very well satisfy the user expectations / budget constraints. It certainly kicks the heck out of a 56K dialup :) .

Terry

[mikehende]

Pretty naive of me to forget about the most important thing, cost, thanks Terry.

[mikehende]

Regarding the tracert, here is an image of the results, can you guys tell me what you make of this or rather what could I have expected to see here if the connection was NOT good?

[kelly]

If the connection was NOT good, timeout's whould show where the XXms are. Try going to a known bad URL and see what happens. Also try disconnecting the DLS and see how far you get. That will give you an idea of how a bad connection will display.
- tony

[mikehende]

Nice idea Kelly, I would like to do this with all three [tracert, ping and ping plotter] but I don't know of any known bad url's, I tried using expired url's but this does not work, anyone got a bad url I can try?

[kelly]

try anything and just mess up the extension. Something like www.kickenhardware.een for instance.

[mikehende]

I am getting the same results as when I had tried using expired url's, the prompt immediately says that it cannot find the host without going through any routes.

[dbarrow]

You need to find out how to access the router setup menu and check settings.
It may not be configured for the DNS server or DHCP is not set right.
Getn on the machine and call Verizon and ask a tech to step you through setup.

[mikehende]

It may not be configured for the DNS server or DHCP is not set right.
Getn on the machine and call Verizon and ask a tech to step you through setup.

This was done in the beginning and remember, it did work fine for a while. Tomorow morning I will do tracert, ping and ping plotter at her place then compare the results to mine and report back here.

[mikehende]

BTW, when I run the tracert and ping on her pc in the morning, is there a way that I can copy the results from the command line into a text file or something so I can upload it here for you guys to see?

[kelly]

Not that I know of. Do you have a digital camera? Take a shot of it and print the jpg.

[mikehende]

Too bad she didn't get her printer yet. Yes, I have a Digicam but I have never used it to take pictures of text before and don't have time to go through the manual now. I guess I'll just take screenshots of the tracert, Ping Plotter and Ping on her laptop and save them then bring her laptop here and transfer those 3 images to my pc for upload here.

One thing I noticed today playing around with the Ping, the tracert worked for every known site but the Ping "Timed out" for those same sites, meaning I could not really get to Ping any site today, any reason why?

[Dan18960]

Make your DOS screen the active "window" and press the Print Screen button - open paint and paste the the image there and save it as a bmp.

[mikehende]

I got it covered where the printscreen thing goes, thanks. BTW, something is puzzling me here with this Net connection business, if you only wish to connect to the net you do NOT need a Router, correct? All you would need is a Modem? From what I can tell, you only need a router for "Networking" purposes? Can anyone confirm/deny this please?

[dbarrow]

Back to basics...

Get Ping Plotter which has a graph you can screenshot or Ping Plotter Pro which saves/prints the graph. It is a 'must have' program for your toolbox so invest in it as you will undoubtedly use it in the future.

Your ping times out WHERE?
At the modem or above it?
Ping the DNS server you show in the router menu and see if it times out. Change DNS servers and see if that works.

CHECK those router settings!
Does it contain the correct DHCP, DNS, subnet numbers etc. ?
Walk through them again with a LEVEL 2 Tech Support
(not the first flunky who answers the phone)
This problem may be as simple as one check box in router settings!

HARD WIRE the laptop to the router with a CAT5 and determine if a wireless setting is the cause.

MAKE SURE all firewalls are turned off during your tests!
RUN the tests at DSLreports.com
You will get results from the line test, latency tests, etc there that can point to your problem.

Is there any VERIZON software installed?
Maybe it screwed up some network settings.

READ some of the info contained in DSLreports about tweaking your broadband. You will get an understanding about MTU, Window scaling, Acks, black holes, etc.
GET DRtcp019.exe utility for making changes. It is listed on their page in tools and how to use it.

[kelly]

Mike - correct - to connect to the Internet, you need only the modem. The router is used to connect more than one computer to the Internet connection coming into your home.

It's also recommended to use a router even if you have only a single Internet connected computer because the router provides a level of security by isolating the computer IP address from the Internet.
- tony

[mikehende]

Noted Tony, thanks. OK guys, went to my friend a short while ago and her connection was perfect, asked her how this happened and she said that this morning she saw a prompt upon startup mentioning "something about the filter" so she switched the filter and phone plugs and that did it. When I looked, she had a 2-way phone adapter plugged into the wall phone jack with both filter and phone cord plugged into it, what I would like to know is, why would "switching" these two plugs in the adapter cause a problem in the first place? Also, why did it work for 2 weeks that way and then all of a sudden not work?

[dbarrow]

Simple... crappy contacts!
Ever get one of those phone splitters for 2 lines and your phone gets all scratchy?
Voice is one thing, data transmission is a lot more critical.
A bad plug/connection would cause all sorts of intermittant problems.

The next thing you need to address is her wireless range.
You mention it was not all that hot.
Take the laptop and check signal strength througout her place and make sure you can get a solid signal everywhere. (or next, she will be complaining it won't work in the bathroom or something)
May be necessary to change the location of the router and modem.
While you are at it, make sure WEP or WPA is enabled and SSID broadcast is turned off. Secure the wireless, unless she wants to run an open hotspot free to everyone in the neighborhood.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people never enable their wireless security! We now have wireless toughbooks to use on the trucks and have found we can get a solid wireless connection almost anywhere we go because of the almost limitless open connections out there.

[mikehende]

Simple... crappy contacts!
Ever get one of those phone splitters for 2 lines and your phone gets all scratchy?
Voice is one thing, data transmission is a lot more critical.
A bad plug/connection would cause all sorts of intermittant problems.
.

If I understand you correctly Doug, you're saying that only "one" side of the splitter in question can have crappy contacts?

[dbarrow]

Could be the plug, could be the splitter, could be how the plug fits in the slot, dust, dirt, corrosion.... any and all the above.

[mikehende]

Looking back, how could "I" have tracked down that the splitter was at fault here?

[kern]

If I understand you correctly Doug, you're saying that only "one" side of the splitter in question can have crappy contacts?

can be either side of the splitter, and for that matter on any device that has "contacts", whether they are on a circuit board(such as an expansion card), or a spring type as on a splitter. the contacts can oxidize or become bent or loose from handling for example.

[kern]

Looking back, how could "I" have tracked down that the splitter was at fault here?

first rule- make sure all devices are properly connected and that the connections are snug, and to rule out faulty connectors, disconnect as many unnecessary "adapters/splitters" from the loop.

[mikehende]

Yeah, my fault, I should have inspected the connections of all Hardware first, it even tells you this MM's book, sorry guys! Next time.:mad:

[dbarrow]

No problem Mike... working through these problems, we will make a techie out of you yet.
You are on the crash course to learning many things that have taken us years to learn, mostly the hard way!
Problems like this refresh our memories and allow us to share some of the things we have learned with each other.
These threads benefit all of us, which is why we are here!

[mikehende]

Pinging does not work on my pc, I tried it with the same sites I used for the tracerts and all I get is what's on the attachments here, please take a look and give me an idea of what's going on?

[dbarrow]

Obviously failed to connect even to the router and first gateway.
Does that URL work in the browser?

Are you getting internet access with your browser?

[kelly]

I see that but how did it figure out the IP address for hp-core.ebay.com? He put in www.ebay.com and it got resolved to hp-core.ebay.com with an IP address. So something happened here. Something did a name lookup.
- tony

[mikehende]

Obviously failed to connect even to the router and first gateway.
Does that URL work in the browser?
Are you getting internet access with your browser?

Yes, the url works without any problems whatsoever, also, I don't have any problems with internet, the tracert works fine on this pc so I can't figure out why pinging doesn't work?

[dbarrow]

address does not resolve...
Tried it in Ping Plotter and it goes to the last in the list and does not resolve.
Ping something different.

Get Ping Plotter!

[mikehende]

Strange stuff going here, tried both tracert and ping on my wife's pc which is the Host pc directly connected to the router and both does not work, it says ping and tracert

"is not recognized as an internal or external command...."

any ideas why?

[mikehende]

As long as tracert and ping plotter can work, why would I need ping?

[dbarrow]

Many of the MS networking tools are designed and built-in to XP, especially XP Pro, for network diagnostics in local area networks.

As you progress in your studies, you will see where the NT kernel and XP are really a business oriented OS designed for small and large business network environments. Network diagnostic functions become extremely important in situations where you are managing a business network with many workstation machines running XP.

These functions are rarely seen or used by the home or single user who seldom has any need of them.

Once you get past the local network and start dealing with internet problems, there are many after market and third party diagnostic tools that give you greater ability to resolve and diagnose internet connectivity problems.

As your recent internet connectivity problem has demonstrated, these tools can be very handy to troubleshoot them and pinpoint the problem.
You would be well advised to become familiar with and have them in your "toolbox" for future reference.