Puppy Linux- A Young Dog Learning New tricks

[RAK]

IN my search for Linux for Dummies, I find myself once again intrigued by the Puppy Linux distro. I like the fact that it is only 60 megs. and allows for multisessions that can be saved to the CDR or hard drive. It comes with the new Xorg graphics engine , something I don't know much about, but it looks pleasent and works rather well. The only real problem I had was getting the keyboard correct. That took downloading a new template for Xorg. Otherwise, it's been fun to take around the block for a spin. Not for power users, I guess, but if someone wants to get aquainted with Linux, it's a good place to start.


http://www.puppylinux.org/user/viewpage.php?page_id=1

[Tortanick]

X11 is the foundation of all Unix GUIs, and its somewhat out of date, the X.org guys make the most common implimentation of X11, presumibly because its the best. Only a few distros are still moveing over. Hopefully they'll remove all the code that worked in 1980 but dosn't work to well now.

Please explain why its a good starting point?

[RAK]

I would say the fact that it is a Live CD that saves your changes and additions when you leave makes it a good intro into Linux. I've taken it one step foward and added a save file on Fat32 partition (it also supports NTFS read-and-write) , but for someone new to Linux, who doesn't want to delve into the world of partitioning and dual-booting ( I still have flashbacks from the time Partition Magic woundrously whisked my entire system to Hogsworth:mad: ), it's an easy way to become aqquainted. The OS is only 60 megs. but you can add more apps with the Dot-Pup and Pup-Get download managers on the desktop. And if you screw up, you're only out one CD, instead of your whole system. It took me a while today to find a fix for the keyboard problem, but thanks to the multisession capabilities I won't be back to square one the next time I boot up. This is coming from the perspective of a point-and-click kind of user:)

[Tortanick]

I wouldn't give it too much credit for being a live CD, granted its the easyest way to Prove Linux is technically superour to Windows, and its a brilliant safe way to try Linux. But there are plently of live CDs: Puppy, the Ubuntus, Xandros, Mepis, PClinuxOS, etc.

[RAK]

After spending 'till 2o'clock in the morning in a fruitless attempt to add a printer driver, I'm not quite ready to call Linux technically superior:confused: , but I don't recall the other CDs had the abilty to save your sessions on a CDR. Anyway, it's a good OS to practice with and learn a few things; yes this distro does have a long way to go to be a full-time OS. But, after all, it's only a pup:)

[Tortanick]

Ask puppy linuxes forums.

[qldit]

Good Morning Gentlemen, it is interesting to see you trying Puppy, I am a complete adherent to this exciting progressive distro.
The difference with puppy over other distros is that it is entirely loaded to RAM, this includes all programs, and explains why it operates so fast.
(Make sure your memory is perfect before getting too involved)
The CD can then be removed from the machine.
There is no need for a hard drive at all, a flashdrive may be used as a save-to device.
In some instances if a burner is used as a CDROM the CD may be left open and used as a saving device. (reburning additional data back to it)
As a live distro the latest puppy 2.02 (73 Megs) also includes Gparted, and a really good complement of extremely useful programs.
There are not many Live Cd programs where the CD may be removed to free the CDROM once the system is loaded to RAM. You may be aware this also may free a burner!
This distro can now not only read NTFS systems (handy to recover crashed system files) but can also write to them. (this is a newly added process)
Naturally size is a major consideration trying to keep it to a sensible level, so there are shortfalls in the included software modules.
Sadly Printers are one of these areas, but this can be ovecome by adding specific modules.

One really interesting application for this kind of useful Live Linux System, is that it can be loaded and the machine can be online within a couple of minutes complete with firewall.

For online banking or secure short term transactions it is really "UP there".
There is no requirement for any antivirus or malware stuff.
As soon as the machine is exited all substance of any system is gone.
In the case where a system is needed to be loaded onto a drive, a flashdrive, hard drive or other media may be used. The versitility is substantial.

I have operated Puppy Linux for two years now in all different kinds of circumstances and never had any problem with any viral thing at all. No A/V system has been loaded.

I have loaded it to "oldies" machines (pensioners) and it has also been trouble free.

It runs beautifully on virtually any machine better than a Pentium 200, any P2 or better is super quick, a 2 gig hard drive is ample with preferably 128 Megs of memory but that is not neccessary. More is better, less still works!
A lesser memory machine operates better with a swap area on the drive.
The tools to do this are available in a running load, and a hard-drive install is done from a fully running system.
Certainly worth a play.
This is an easy system to add or alter, it has a good reliable GRUB boot loader that is arranged to see any operating systems in the machine and boot them.

Another Linux system which is incredibly interesting is Kanotix, (Easter 2006 version)this is a 700 meg live distro, the cd needs to be retained in the drive.
it is based on Knoppix using Debian and is a credit to the people concerned.
It has substantial printer support and a plethora of useful programs with more available.
It can easily be loaded to a hard drive.
These two Linux distros would have to be the best I have seen for flexibility and ease of use.
Either system can easily be dual booted or arranged to dual boot others.

Consider having a Linux system on-line and using it for all online operations, then transferring material through it to a Windows system. Certainly food for thought.

I would be inclined to obtain both these distros, then run Kanotix, checkout it's Printer install program (lots of modules) and confirm the printer operates correctly.
Running lsmod at the command line should show which modules have been loaded, so carefully noting the Printer module number should allow you to "pinch" it and remaster a Puppy Linux with that module included or place it in Puppy on a drive.
There are other work-arounds but they take time.
Once you use Puppy everything else is slow!! It certainly spoils you!!
Cheers, qldit.

[PeteF]

Once you use Puppy everything else is slow!! It certainly spoils you!!
Cheers, qldit.

Hey guys,
I'm new to Linux and only evaluated MEPIS and FREESPIRE so far.
I tried running them on a 2.4ghz P4 w/256mb ram and a 52x CD drive.
To me they both seemed impractical to run off the live CD due to
how slow things go. The load time for an application like Open Office
Word processing was so slow it reminded me of my Commodore 64.
I'm talking 10 minutes or more to load an application. Or you click
on something already loaded and wait 30 secs for it to respond.
Click and wait...click and wait...click and Wait...describes it best.
So at least with those versions the live CD is mostly useful to see if
your hardware is compatible and maybe to do some browsing around
the Linux OS to see what it's all about. What you guys seem to be
saying is that PUPPY Linux runs fast enough to use off of the live CD.

I see that each version of Linux has specific advantages.
I still have not seen a review or comparison that objectively
weighs the pros and cons of each version. All the articles
I've read so far on the different versons tend to be biased
and mainly tell you the pros but NOT the cons or how versions
compare against each other.

It's so complicated we could use a separate computer program
that would interview the user, look at the hardware, and then
suggest which version of Linux to use per the task at hand,
the hardware configuration, the user's personal preferences.

So far I like FREESPIRE best overall for how the OS operates
and the software & features included. The MEPIS guys tell me
theirs is superior becasue of the large choice of hardware it
supports. PUPPY seems best if you want to run from the live
CD.

That's my take so far.

---pete---

[qldit]

Good Afternoon Pete, yes there are only a few of these systems that completly load to RAM, then the CD can be removed.
The idea is that the RAM becomes a virtual hard drive, this is why this system works so quickly.
Everything is stored in RAM, all the programs entirely!
(Unless you are on an old system with 16 megs of ram or something like that, then you really need some swap space like a partition on a hard drive.)

It is a unique idea, and Puppy has an available memory indiction on the taskbar with a processor activity indicator next to it.
This is pretty useful because if you have no other media and start saving stuff you can rapidly run out of RAM.
This is why it suggests not less than 128 megs of RAM (some machines share RAM with video so you can appreciate why the indicator is so useful)

There is a drive mounting tool to mount any drives you might like to use if you want extra save ability.
(I don't like the drive mount on the desktop but use the second one in Start > Utilities and leave it minimised if any drives are mounted)

If you haven't tried Puppy you will be pleasantly surprised, if you might give it a try I can walk you through a few aspects of it that will make it much easier for you to drive it.

The latest version I suggest for any trial is puppy-2.02-seamonkey.iso it is 73.5 Megs
And available here http://www.puppyos.com/download/downpage.htm
There are tutorials for it here http://www.puppylinux.org/user/viewpage.php?page_id=1

Yes Rak, the keyboard type screen was a bit odd, but scroll down to "US qwerty" then follow the defaults with the latest version, loading only has three questions now from memory. This is generally a normal method.
So after placing the CD in the drive and starting your machine, just leave it, the default is a RAM load, it is pretty clever. Use the Vesa path for the display until you get your legs.
When it boots select a 600x800 screensize to make it easier to see.
There a many wizards to make things easy, and a wizard-wizard to list some of the wizards!! LOL!

The major problem with it, is that once you have been using it for a while it kind of makes it that you don't like using anything else. No scanners, no defrag, it just works.
There are quite a few little quirks that make it's operation much simpler.

It is essentially all one click! LOL! (newbies tend to have a screenful of duplicated windows!!)

It is an excellent learning tool for working with different directories and introducing yourself to basic logical actions in Linux.
The forum is also incredibly helpful.
So you have tried the rest now try the best!! LOL!!
Cheers, qldit.

[PeteF]

The latest version I suggest for any trial is puppy-2.02-seamonkey.iso it is 73.5 Megs
And available here http://www.puppyos.com/download/downpage.htm
When it boots select a 600x800 screensize to make it easier to see.


qldit,
I tried the version you recommended and it certainliy is fast compared
to other versions. I tried the 600x800 resolution but only got the
pseudo colors which makes pics look more like cartoons. For me
that was the deal breaker. Otherwise it's an interesting version.
I'll keep it around on CD becasue I'm sure I'll find a use for it in
the future.

FreeSpire is still by favorite. I experimented yesterday and got the
Shared Desktop thing to work in FreeSpire. That's Linux's answer
to WinXP's Remote Assistance. Very cool. MEPIS didn't have that
built in.

MEPIS has various versions. When I accepted the challenge to
evaluate TAFUSION MEPIS they sent me a 5 pound box of CDs
with about 12 CDs of about 7 different MEPIS versions. There's
more too. MEPIS ASPEN is designed to work with older PII & PII
PCs. That's the version I need to test next.

Keep in mind what my goal is. I want to give people the option
to keep their old computer running without spending a lot of
money. Mainly for people who just surf the web, do email, and
maybe some basic wordprocessing.

Thanks for the Puppy Linux experience!

---pete---

[Tortanick]

Freespire looks good, Just wondering how dependant on its click n run software is it for installing stuff? Most other distro's come with their own servers full of free (beer) software.

[qldit]

qldit,
Keep in mind what my goal is. I want to give people the option
to keep their old computer running without spending a lot of
money. Mainly for people who just surf the web, do email, and
maybe some basic wordprocessing.

Thanks for the Puppy Linux experience!

---pete---
Good Morning Pete, It seems we have parrallel aims, this was my exact reason for the ongoing evaluation of all the different systems.
I have been installing Puppy in pensioners machines on their hard drives for virtually twelve months with no problems. (A little instruction is needed of course.)

As you are aware most of these people are elderly and only want basic operations using older machines, so Puppy operates perfectly and meets all the critereon.

The funny thing is that most problems are caused by these people's children when they visit.
Invariably they are windows proficient and get involved showing their parents how it is done!!
I have struck this on several occasions and actually had to scold their adult children!! LOL!

But overall, the exercise is incredibly beneficial with some of these people, because their lives actually revolve around their ability to communicate and do and learn interesting things.

With windows I would receive problems virtually every week, mainly caused by viral kinds of problems and the lack of available money for better malware protection.

Quite obviously you also do a lot of charity work so you appreciate exactly what I am referring to and have similar aims.

It is interesting follow the progression of all this associated application of technology and the implications, especially in areas of elderly persons well-being and worth.

My compliments.
Cheers, qldit.

[PeteF]

As you are aware most of these people are elderly and only want basic operations using older machines, so Puppy operates perfectly and meets all the critereon.

The funny thing is that most problems are caused by these people's children when they visit.
Invariably they are windows proficient and get involved showing their parents how it is done!!
I have struck this on several occasions and actually had to scold their adult children!! LOL!



With Puppy, are you able to use 800x600 screen res and get good
quality color photos? My impression is that it just won't do it.

Also, do you think it's possible to setup Puppy such that all the
data & email are stored on a separate partition and such that you
can save the basic Puppy setup separately? In doing so, I'm
thinking if the system ever got messed up, you come in and
simply restore the OS to it's initial condition and the data remains
intact and still accessible.

Another thing, I think i saw the "Shared Desktop" feature in
Puppy. Is that correct? If so have you tried it?

---pete---

[qldit]

With Puppy, are you able to use 800x600 screen res and get good
quality color photos? My impression is that it just won't do it.

Also, do you think it's possible to setup Puppy such that all the
data & email are stored on a separate partition and such that you
can save the basic Puppy setup separately? In doing so, I'm
thinking if the system ever got messed up, you come in and
simply restore the OS to it's initial condition and the data remains
intact and still accessible.

Another thing, I think i saw the "Shared Desktop" feature in
Puppy. Is that correct? If so have you tried it?

---pete---
G'day Pete, with machines that don't have much memory, (like and old P200 with 32Megs RAM and a 2gig drive) I usually clean the drive and partition and format it in another machine and load Puppy there. I like to see a decent swap space in these kinds of situations, like 500 megs or so I even make some as big as a gig.
So when the drive is placed back in the lesser machine it all functions nicely and the available memory will show as RAM plus swap.

I never worry about different schemes for data and email, the system is incredibly reliable, they can print their email lists if they wish.
But I can't imagine any problem making another directory elsewhere.
In probably fifty installs the only problems have been silly deletions by operator error.

But a complete fresh install only takes ten minutes dependent on memory.

It is interesting however if you have a multibooted system and access Puppy from another operating system it really doesn't like the activity, but going the other way seems to be no problem. I don't know why. Some extra integrity appears to be involved in Puppy.

The Puppy programmers have I believe, written software to allow a later installation to retain previous information. But I have never worried about it.
It is kind of like "why update a perfectly reliable operating system"!

Virtually the only problem I commonly see is where the machine boots to a command line, this happens if the machine is not shutdown properly, and the fix is generally to simply type xwin and enter.

I have no idea why you aren't getting screen sizes and quality as best possible.
I haven't struck that problem, usually I just use the Vesa settings with the older machines and Korg on the newer ones and of course the video card abilities affect a lot of it with monitor capabilities. It is easy enough to use the really large screen sizes on some of the later systems, but refresh rates may need to be watched.

I did find some motherboards caused some limitations for some odd reason, but that is uncommon.

I haven't played with the shared desktop.

There are a few tips for operating Puppy that make it much easier.
At first few uses it seems cumbersome, but things like playing a music CD in the CDROM or a movie in a DVD does not require manual mounting, just open Gxine, the menubar File > CD or DVD and the thing plays.
The drive mount tool in Start > utilites is best left minimised if any drive is accessed for other operation involving data transfers.

It is handy set up as a dual boot system with windows.

The Puppy Forum is incredibly helpful but you do need to be careful to undersatnd what they actually mean and say. LOL! (A lot of them are obviously programmers.)

qldit.

[Tortanick]

Well if you want to reformat a linux machine, but keep all personal files and saved E-mails a seprate /home partition should do it.

However be warned that this will also save personal settings for programs like firefox, e.g. bookmarks & extensions. In theory great, in practice it could cause problems with incompatible settings.

[PeteF]

I have no idea why you aren't getting screen sizes and quality as best possible.
I haven't struck that problem, usually I just use the Vesa settings with the older machines and Korg on the newer ones and of course the video card abilities affect a lot of it with monitor capabilities. It is easy enough to use the really large screen sizes on some of the later systems, but refresh rates may need to be watched.


Ok, knowing that Puppy will handle high screen res, I'll give it another try.
Thanks for all the useful info!

---pete---

[PeteF]

Well if you want to reformat a linux machine, but keep all personal files and saved E-mails a seprate /home partition should do it.

However be warned that this will also save personal settings for programs like firefox, e.g. bookmarks & extensions. In theory great, in practice it could cause problems with incompatible settings.

Here's my thinking. I setup a computer for someone and 6 months down
the road they call me becasue the system is is not working correctly.
I apply a 10 minute fix by restoring the system back to the way I
originally set it up for them and their data & settings remain intact.
Is this a practical approach?

---pete---

[Tortanick]

I can't really say, what with experimentation my Linux systems tend to only last a few weeks.

What I'd do is grab an outdated copy of a distro, install it with a seprate /home partition. Write a few text docs, install a usefull program or two. Send/recieve a few E-mails and customise the toolbars in a few programs.

Then get the current verision, install it but keep the /home partiton, reinstall all missing programs and see how well it works.

Don't forget though, linux is far more stable than windows, there are very few viruses and nearly all of them need to trick a user. System files are password protected from accidental access and per-user application settings are hidden from plane view.

[kern]

G'day Pete, with machines that don't have much memory, (like and old P200 with 32Megs RAM and a 2gig drive) I usually clean the drive and partition and format it in another machine and load Puppy there. I like to see a decent swap space in these kinds of situations, like 500 megs or so I even make some as big as a gig.
So when the drive is placed back in the lesser machine it all functions nicely and the available memory will show as RAM plus swap.

I never worry about different schemes for data and email, the system is incredibly reliable, they can print their email lists if they wish.
But I can't imagine any problem making another directory elsewhere.
In probably fifty installs the only problems have been silly deletions by operator error.

But a complete fresh install only takes ten minutes dependent on memory.

...I have no idea why you aren't getting screen sizes and quality as best possible. I haven't struck that problem, usually I just use the Vesa settings with the older machines and Korg on the newer ones and of course the video card abilities affect a lot of it with monitor capabilities. It is easy enough to use the really large screen sizes on some of the later systems, but refresh rates may need to be watched.

qldit.

I had tinkered with Linux Mandrake for a bit, but lost interest. After listening to the discussion about Linux in last nights Paltalk chat, I'm going to give this "puppy" a try.