Q on small upgrade to desktop please

[golfmore]

I presently have:

P4 2.4 533 512.

What would the gain be if I went to:

P4 3.0 800 512? (cost about $96)

Also have a a Radeon 8500 in it. What might be a cost effective upgrade here?

Is this even worth doing? Thanks

[dbarrow]

What are you looking to accomplish?
This is all relative to the power you need for multi-tasking or gaming.
If the machine is sluggish in one of those areas, the first thing I would do is stick in another 512 of ram which would make more difference than changing processor.
XP starts to purr at 1g.

Yes, 3.0 at 800 would be a speed jump but only after the ram increase and finding a valid need.
Depending on the mobo and ram, you may be able to easily clock the 2.4 up to 3g.

If the mobo supports Dual Core ...
Seems all the Dual Core/Core Duo CPUs are taking very healthy overclocks on air with little difficulty and they really do perform.
You can buy some of the bottom end Core Duo CPUs and really make them scream!

[golfmore]

I have a gig of RAM now. The 512 is the cache of the CPU. What about that Dell 3100 deal that's good until the 23rd? Includes a 19" flatpanel. I'm running an Intel PERL. No OC there.

[Dan18960]

The PERL will not support the dual core.

I agree with Doug - memory would be a bigger boost.

Of course, IF you are noticing a slowness in the system, I would look at your resident programs. I have found that most systems that are "slow" are gummed up with a half dozen resident programs that are battling the core kernel of the OS (because they are duplicating many of the functions) because instead of disabling the core services they just add their own.

The more you load into your system that is to protect you (and don't uninstall older apps) the more you are "stressing" your system. How many firewalls do you need running at once, how many popup stoppers do you need running at once, how many spyware programs do you need running at once, etc, etc,???? Remember many of today's programs do more than the one function you were use to in the past! NAV 2006 (as an EXAMPLE) now tries to be your spam blocker, firewall, internet security, AND then antivirus program - you use to be able to trust Symantec to just load the AV and get an antivirus that checked your system and emails for viruses! The same is true of McAfee and a few others. So if you are using ZA and NAV, you have 2 programs battling it out. If you are using a popup blocker AND Microsofts popup you have 2 programs battling it out. The list can go on and on.

Our paranioa can be our most evil enemy to ourselves sometimes.

[dbarrow]

Your PERL is an 865 chipset.
You have 1g of ram and an AGP vid card of good quality.
http://www.kickenhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2653&highlight=805D

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=247036
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80849

Mobo $89, CPU $95, use existing parts.

The 865 chipset is one of the best ever made.
This mobo upgrades to a socket 775 with dual core support.
The 805D is about the cheapest CPU you can get.
Use your existing ram and AGP vid on it.

One click in BIOS using automatic OC to 30%=3.4

This thing is FAST! As I mentioned, it runs as quick as my 3.6 PCIe machine and in some cases, may actually beat it.
It will do rock solid 3.6 on air just setting FSB in BIOS.
Although I didn't do side by side benchmarks, I am most impressed by overall performance.
(It does have 2g of Corsair low latency Pro ram, most expensive part of the machine)
Gaming performance with Oblivion (most demanding graphics game out there) is astonishing with all settings maxed out.
He wasn't thrilled with the onboard sound, although I thought it was just fine, and put in an Audigy 4.
Im not sure about support for one of the higher grade Core Duo2 CPUs (check compatibility list).
The dual cores are the way to go and it seems they all take a healthy boost easily. Many of the mobos now have built-in automatic OC ability.

[golfmore]

dBarrow, thanks for that help. At my age this wil be the last comp I ever build. The price seems right. I will check that out. I'm using Kingston RAM (2 X 512's). Not sure if that will OC. But if I'm hearing you right, this will be faster than my present 2.4 Northwood at 533, true?

I'm going to order that set. Thanks. The worst case is that I'll have to get new RAM, but maybe not.

[dbarrow]

Corsair TWINX2048-3500LLPRO 2GB Kit DDR433 XMS3500 ProSeries
The 2g low latency ram may have much to do with performance, which is why we chose it.

Note the 805D does not have L2cache
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/

There may be an even better choice with the recent Core Duo price cuts but I don't know which Dual Core CPUs the mobo supports in the newer lineup.

Cranked up to 3.4, 3.6, 3.8 this combo sizzles with speed.
With water, I did hit 4.1 as the article says but I had some Prime95 errors. That testing was done before the big crash that finally traced down to a bent pin in the CPU socket after an RMA. With a brand new replacement board, I just set it at 3.6 and left it there 100% stable.
Currently stuck waiting on a new water pump as ... of course... the new one quit less than 30 days uptime.

It was a cheap alternative for what son wanted to do using his existing X850XT PE AGP vid card

[golfmore]

What is the significance of no L2 cache? Will this be faster, better than the 2.4 Northwood?
Cost effective is Good here. (Having trouble with the ZipZoomFly site.)

[dbarrow]

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductList.jsp?ThirdCategoryCode=010427

With the D series price drops, there are several in this series with 2x2meg cache for a few dollars more.
Serious research on some of the OC sites may reveal which is the best choice here.
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80846
The 3.4 2x2 at $186 may be a good choice that should go 3.8 no problem.
First, check compatibility list.

The Asus AI overclock is pretty fool proof. Just select 10,20,30% and it fires it up at that speed. If it crashes, it reverts to stock.

[golfmore]

Also, is the cooler that comes with that CPU K for 3.4GHz? If not I'd get that Zalman CU one. Thanks.

[mylanta]

Your PERL is an 865 chipset.
You have 1g of ram and an AGP vid card of good quality.
http://www.kickenhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2653&highlight=805D

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=247036
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80849

Mobo $89, CPU $95, use existing parts.

The 865 chipset is one of the best ever made.
This mobo upgrades to a socket 775 with dual core support.
The 805D is about the cheapest CPU you can get.
Use your existing ram and AGP vid on it.

One click in BIOS using automatic OC to 30%=3.4

This thing is FAST! As I mentioned, it runs as quick as my 3.6 PCIe machine and in some cases, may actually beat it.
It will do rock solid 3.6 on air just setting FSB in BIOS.
Although I didn't do side by side benchmarks, I am most impressed by overall performance.
(It does have 2g of Corsair low latency Pro ram, most expensive part of the machine)
Gaming performance with Oblivion (most demanding graphics game out there) is astonishing with all settings maxed out.
He wasn't thrilled with the onboard sound, although I thought it was just fine, and put in an Audigy 4.
Im not sure about support for one of the higher grade Core Duo2 CPUs (check compatibility list).
The dual cores are the way to go and it seems they all take a healthy boost easily. Many of the mobos now have built-in automatic OC ability.
Core Duo cpu's only run on 975 chipset at the moment Doug. And there are very few boards for them right now.

[mylanta]

The PERL will not support the dual core.

I agree with Doug - memory would be a bigger boost.

Of course, IF you are noticing a slowness in the system, I would look at your resident programs. I have found that most systems that are "slow" are gummed up with a half dozen resident programs that are battling the core kernel of the OS (because they are duplicating many of the functions) because instead of disabling the core services they just add their own.

The more you load into your system that is to protect you (and don't uninstall older apps) the more you are "stressing" your system. How many firewalls do you need running at once, how many popup stoppers do you need running at once, how many spyware programs do you need running at once, etc, etc,???? Remember many of today's programs do more than the one function you were use to in the past! NAV 2006 (as an EXAMPLE) now tries to be your spam blocker, firewall, internet security, AND then antivirus program - you use to be able to trust Symantec to just load the AV and get an antivirus that checked your system and emails for viruses! The same is true of McAfee and a few others. So if you are using ZA and NAV, you have 2 programs battling it out. If you are using a popup blocker AND Microsofts popup you have 2 programs battling it out. The list can go on and on.

Our paranioa can be our most evil enemy to ourselves sometimes.


Though I am not positive what Dan is saying here I think he means if you go:
"Run,msconfig,OK,Startup" and tell us what is checked there, we can tell you what to uncheck as this is what slows most systems to a crawl...this and virus and spyware.

[dbarrow]

From what I have read, the stock cooler has been performing very well up to some of the extreme OCs.
I would just go with the stock cooler unless need proves otherwise.

The Dual Cores seem to have solved the nuclear reactor heat problems of the P4.
I would make sure the case fans are adequate/extra as the northbidge and caps next to the CPU socket kick out a lot of heat when you OC.
One of my reasons for holding at 3.6 was the heat from those caps at 3.8 which seemed quite hot. The CPU didn't budge much on water but those caps would burn your fingers.

[golfmore]

I have a larger Lite-On case with 2 120's out the back, 1 in the front, and the HDD's are in front of one of the fans, the CPU is in front of the other. Originally I used this to OC a 1.8 to 2.4.

Also, I would stick with the 2.66 and OC 20%. That should be enough for me. For that price it seems effective for me.

[golfmore]

What is running in the startup is:
type32
avgemc
avgcc
ISUSPM
smax4
Logi_MwX
TrueimmageMonitor
Schedhlp
clonecdtray
just sched
Adobe Reader Spe....

They are all checked.

[mylanta]

Leave these:
avgemc
avgcc
TrueimmageMonitor
Schedhlp
and uncheck the rest hit apply and reboot.

[mylanta]

From what I have read, the stock cooler has been performing very well up to some of the extreme OCs.
I would just go with the stock cooler unless need proves otherwise.

The Dual Cores seem to have solved the nuclear reactor heat problems of the P4.
I would make sure the case fans are adequate/extra as the northbidge and caps next to the CPU socket kick out a lot of heat when you OC.
One of my reasons for holding at 3.6 was the heat from those caps at 3.8 which seemed quite hot. The CPU didn't budge much on water but those caps would burn your fingers.

The Core Duo has Doug, but the other dual core Intel chuips are little furnaces and amongst the hottest running cpu ever produced.

[golfmore]

My system won't let me turn them off (uncheck). I can uncheck, but the nest time it boots, it says" to set the boot to normal and reboot, hence all are back on. However I just relaized that I have a startup pgm in my control panel. I have unchecked the items there and will try again. Thanks.

P.S. That was the issue. They are off now. That Startup pgm must take over. Look at www.mlin.net On second thought, it's in Chinese.

Q Are we saying that the 805D is not the CPU to use because of heat? Don't want to get into a major upgrade but the orig looked OK as far as $$.. Thanks.....

[dbarrow]

Heat is LESS of a problem with Dual Core chips.
Even with hefty OC, they are not generating nearly as much heat which is why they can get an easy 30% boost on stock coolers.

What I said is, there are other components of the mobo that will kick out more heat when you bump them up and you need to pay attention to your overall cooling ie:
A heat sink only northbridge may require adding a 40mm fan.
Getting ram with heat spreaders as oppsed to without.
Intake and exhaust fans for good through flow.

[golfmore]

So give me suggestions. I am open. I just want to do a small upgrade, that is cost effective. I am NOT hte want to be be SEVERE OC man. I just wnat to get above where I am. I thanks all of you for your help, and go from there. Thanks so much.

[dbarrow]

If you go with that mobo, which is about the only one with socket 775 that still has an AGP slot to use your exisiting card, Compatibility list show it supporting all the Pentium D series so it is a matter of what you want to spend.

Your existing Kingston may be quite acceptable but I would look up the compatibility on their site.

Using all your existing hardware and drives, you are looking at the mobo and CPU which would be cost effective.

As I said, the Asus AI OC is a painless way to gain a substantial bump without any real effort.
The D945 at 3.4 may be a good option if you want to spend that.

[golfmore]

I have another Q on this please. What does a different size of cache do for me? I noticed that different processors in the D group have different cache sizes. What does a Pent D with 1 meg cache do relative to a P4 with 512 cache, assuming they both are rated at 2.4GHz? (Still trying to decide if I want to do the Pent D thing. )

Also, how do I check to see if My Kingston RAM will work with that setup (The pent D and the Asus MB.)? Thanks for the patience.

[mylanta]

You should be able to check your mobo on Asus Website for compatibility with ram, or go to www.kingston.com (http://www.kingston.com) and put mobo model in and see what ram is compatible that way.
As for cache think of it as desktop space to work. Simplified a cpu uses cache to work on projects and the larger the cache, the more it can get done quickly without finding more deskspace to work on, the more efficient the job will be.

[golfmore]

Is the D processor the one called "Prescott"? I found out that it's not. Sorry for that. My ram will work in that board. I may do that. The Laptop is out of the question for a month or so, and I really don't want to go to the latest Core Duo. Thanks for the help.

[golfmore]

I have tried for four days to get an order into ZipZoomFly. It always hangs when I go to confirm the order. I have tried it at 3 AM, and during the day. I am lost. They won't take the order over the phone. (Not a Harvard Business Model.)

[dbarrow]

Try using IE. I have had a problem with it sometimes in FF.

[golfmore]

Did that already. Several times. Several months ago, I tried for another item. Couldn't get it to work, called and a young lady helped me over the phone. Today, they said they couldn't.

[golfmore]

I ended up ordering the Northwood 3.4 Ghz from Ewiz $129 w/shipping. I'll wait until I can get that laptop I want. Thanks for all the help.