Windows NT situation?

[mikehende]

A neighbor of mine who does construction found a pc while cleaning out a building and not knowing if it's working or not he just brought it to me to see if it's working or not. It booted fine and here's the specs on it according to what I see in it's BIOS

Dell Optiplex GX200 BIOS Revision A02
PIII 1ghz 256ram ecc rdram
Service Tag BBMDGO1
686 Processor ID
Windows NT Workstation

It boots fine to windows but asks for the login info which of course no one knows, before reloading either win2k or XP on it, I would like to know if there is any way to bypass the login to get into the NT software, since I have never come across NT before I see this as a golden opportunity to see what it's like, any ideas please?

[mikehende]

BTW, don't mean at all to raise any illegal issues here but there are legal or genuine cases where this is needed, for example this one which I found while searching the net before coming here with this

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Ope...Q_20735154.html

So what do you do in situations like these? I would think that "any" Tech is supposed to know what to do in these situations or do you tell the client to throw out the pc? :)

[kern]

BTW, don't mean at all to raise any illegal issues here but there are legal or genuine cases where this is needed, for example this one which I found while searching the net before coming here with this

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Ope...Q_20735154.html

So what do you do in situations like these? I would think that "any" Tech is supposed to know what to do in these situations or do you tell the client to throw out the pc? :)

http://www.password-changer.com/

[Tortanick]

Personally I'd just install the new OS without getting round the password. The ethical issues of useing an old PC with someone elses stuff on it overide any curiosoty of how NT works.

[mikehende]

Well, it's not just that simple where I'm concerned, this thing opened up a whole new can of worms for me unfortunately and it's really bugging the hell out of me that I don't know how to get in because whenever I should come across people in the future who simply forgot their password I would like to know how to either recover it for them or get in and then get them to use another new password.

If I do get around this password, I will not go looking at any files, only how the OS is structured and where/how certain things are laid out.

[Tortanick]

well try this

http://www.petri.co.il/forgot_administrator_password.htm#3

[mikehende]

What took you so long?:) Been feverishly searching the net for the past 5 hours or so and did get some tutorials but those mainly involved the use of floppy which this pc in question does not have, will go take a break now then attack your link, thanks a million, will let you know how it goes!

[mikehende]

BTW, might as well ask this question now for future use, whenever you come across a utility which needs to be run from a floppy and the pc only has a cd-rom, is there any recourse? Maybe a cd-to-floppy adapter or anything at all which can work?

[mylanta]

First of all it's easy around with a usb floppy drive:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2143215&CatId=287
but beyond that it's a $10 part you can add easily internally.

[mylanta]

Once again you have a free computer and I agree I would not want anything to do with anyone elses data...I would buy an XP copy which can be has as inexpensively as $50-60 on eBay and do a clean install.

[mikehende]

but beyond that it's a $10 part you can add easily internally.

Can you tell me what that is for situations where the pc does not have USB ports?

[mylanta]

Any pc from 1997 forward will have usb ports and the $10 drive comes with a cable and 2 screws usually.

[mikehende]

Once again you have a free computer and I agree I would not want anything to do with anyone elses data...I would buy an XP copy which can be has as inexpensively as $50-60 on eBay and do a clean install.

Yes, the neighbor wants XP on it if the pc is good, it's I myself who wants to take a look at the NT software first.

[mikehende]

well try this

http://www.petri.co.il/forgot_administrator_password.htm#3

Started working on that last night which led me to their forum here

http://www.petri.co.il/forums/showthread.php?p=38876#post38876

which led me to the options mentioned in the thread, I chose the "Alternate screen logon" option but I ran into my first hurdle as I am trying to load win2k as I don't have a copy of NT, my first problem right now is at the Partitioning screen, however, the tutorial says

"It is best that you install the alternate instance of the OS into a different partition than the one on which you have the installation"

What I am seeing on this screen are 2 partitions, the one that is highlighted reads "Unknown" and the other partition reads "C: NTFS <AMS_2_51> 19861MB <17627 MB free> it looks like this on the screen

--- Unknown 31 MB
C: NTFS <AMS_2_51> 19861 MB <17627 MB free>

with Unknown being highlighted. I chose the Unknown but it's too small, I need at least 768 MB for Win2K so I am stumped here, did a google search looking for tutorials on this but can't find anything, help? BTW, if any of you guys think that I should NOT continue this topic here, let me know and I'll end it.

[kern]

...I chose the "Alternate screen logon" option but I ran into my first hurdle as I am trying to load win2k as I don't have a copy of NT, my first problem right now is at the Partitioning screen, however, the tutorial says

"It is best that you install the alternate instance of the OS into a different partition than the one on which you have the installation"

What I am seeing on this screen are 2 partitions, the one that is highlighted reads "Unknown" and the other partition reads "C: NTFS <AMS_2_51> 19861MB <17627 MB free> it looks like this on the screen

--- Unknown 31 MB
C: NTFS <AMS_2_51> 19861 MB <17627 MB free>

with Unknown being highlighted. I chose the Unknown but it's too small, I need at least 768 MB for Win2K so I am stumped here...

Mike,
you can add a second harddrive to install W2k, or use a partitioning utility to create another partition for W2K.

[mikehende]

Thanks, Rob, I am currently looking around for a partitioning utility as you've mentioned, in the meantime, does this mean that I can re-partition the C drive and not do any damage to the already installed NT OS that it has on there?

[kern]

Thanks, Rob, I am currently looking around for a partitioning utility as you've mentioned, in the meantime, does this mean that I can re-partition the C drive and not do any damage to the already installed NT OS that it has on there?

a partitioning utility will allow you to "resize" an existing partition, and create a new partition from the "free" space, but theres always a chance that you will lose data or trash the existing partition. at the very least the drive should be defragmented and a backup created.
given the unkonwn state of this harddrive, i'd opt for the second harddrive.

[mikehende]

ok then, think I will try a 2nd HDD since you say this will be the safest option, get back to you.

[Tortanick]

What took you so long?:) Been feverishly searching the net for the past 5 hours or so and did get some tutorials but those mainly involved the use of floppy which this pc in question does not have, will go take a break now then attack your link, thanks a million, will let you know how it goes!

I found that link in one google ages ago then never forgot it. just serch for forgot admin password. And what took me so long was that I decided to recomend not breaking in first remember ;)

P.S. for future refrence gparted is a good partitioner that runs from a CD.

[mikehende]

I was searching using words like "bypassing NT logon" and such, I guess as usual everything depends on the search words you use. One thing I am noticing with this project, a lot of people around the net seem to be "hesitant" about encouraging me to embark on this project and my gut feeling tells me it is not so much for "moral or legal" issues but more because this is a way too complicated project and people would rather not do this or am I mistaken?

I will look into the gparted thanks] when I am done with this because my next personal project will be partitioning my External drive for backup purposes, I came across this on the net a short while ago and was wondering if anyone here has personally used or can recommend any of the free partitioning softwares listed please?

http://www.thefreecountry.com/utilities/partitioneditors.shtml

[dbarrow]

If starting from scratch with a blank external, just connect it and partion from within Windows using Administrative Tools\Computer Management\Disk management.

If you have to resize or move partitions, Partition Magic is the preferrable tool as it is less likely to screw up data already on a partition.

[mikehende]

The cousin's external had data from the laptop on it but I will reformat it since I do not need it's data so it will become a blank external, thanks, will use windows to partition it and will address this in that thread.

[mikehende]

Back to the task at hand, loaded win2k, pc rebooted but has this on the screen now

"Windows 2000 could not start becuase of a computer disk hardware configuration problem.
Could not read from the selected boot disk. Check boot path and disk hardware."

Any ideas?

[mikehende]

Entered setup to see what I can see there and this is what I am seeing:

Primary Drive 0....................Hard drive
Model WDC e.t.c
Drive Type....Auto
Capacity......20020MB

Primary Drive 1....................Hard drive
Model Maxtor 84320D5
Drive Type....Auto
Capacity......0 MB


Secondary Drive 0...............CD-ROM Reader
Secondary Drive 1...............Unkown device

The Boot Sequence shows:
1. Diskette drive
2. Hard Disk Drive C
3. Ide CD-ROM Device

The Primary Drive 1 shows the 2nd drive I added which is the Maxtor but strange it does not show it's capacity, when I was loading win2k and it came to the partitioning screen, it did show the exact 4GB's of the Maxtor drive. What can you guys make of all of this please?

[Tortanick]

I was searching using words like "bypassing NT logon" and such, I guess as usual everything depends on the search words you use. One thing I am noticing with this project, a lot of people around the net seem to be "hesitant" about encouraging me to embark on this project and my gut feeling tells me it is not so much for "moral or legal" issues but more because this is a way too complicated project and people would rather not do this or am I mistaken?

Considering when I awnsered you you're only goal was to reset a windows password. Useing the tool I recomended to you I cut through those in no time. So I doub't I'd be subconsously saying its too hard ;)

[mikehende]

This difficulty of this project does not phase me in any way, I will treat it just like any of the other difficult apsects of pc I have faced in the past, there's more than one way to do this and I will find one of them!

[mikehende]

Set both drives to cable select and now the 2nd drive's capacity shows in the drive configuration in the bios but still same problem.

[mikehende]

I noticed that the drive with the NT is an IDE drive and I think the 2nd drive I wish to load Win2k on is an ATA drive, can this be why I am having this problem? Can an ATA and IDE drive both work on the same cable/controller?

[mikehende]

Just called up Maxtor and they said this drive is an IDE drive

http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/maxtor.cfg/php/enduser/olh_adp.php?p_faqid=666

So if that's the case then something else is wrong, the Tech suggested that something may be wrong with the Win2k software I am trying to load so I will reformat and try XP on it as I see no other option at this time?

[kern]

Just called up Maxtor and they said this drive is an IDE drive

http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/maxtor.cfg/php/enduser/olh_adp.php?p_faqid=666

So if that's the case then something else is wrong, the Tech suggested that something may be wrong with the Win2k software I am trying to load so I will reformat and try XP on it as I see no other option at this time?


hmmm the plot thickens...
if i remember correctly, you need to have NT SP4 installed in order to dual boot with W2K and/or XP...

[mikehende]

I don't understand why I can't have the option to choose which drive I wish to boot from? Since the 2 drives are on the same controller/cable, I would think there should be some way to choose the boot drive?

[kern]

I don't understand why I can't have the option to choose which drive I wish to boot from? Since the 2 drives are on the same controller/cable, I would think there should be some way to choose the boot drive?

the problem is that the pre NT4 SP4 boot loader can not load W2K boot files, and since you cant boot NT to update to SP4, your at a dead end.

[kern]

Mike,
If you want to learn/tinker with NT4, you can pick it up for around $40 at:
http://www.directdeals.com/item-A26-00009-OEM.aspx

[mikehende]

Thanks Rob but I don't wish to spend money just to see the layout of NT. This guy on the forum said I can try this:

"I would set one to Master and the other to Slave or set them both to Master on different IDE Channels, one on Primary Master and the other on Secondary Master (don't forget to put the CD ROM to Slave). Your data cable may not be capable of Cable Select!"

What do you think?

[kern]

Thanks Rob but I don't wish to spend money just to see the layout of NT. This guy on the forum said I can try this:

"I would set one to Master and the other to Slave or set them both to Master on different IDE Channels, one on Primary Master and the other on Secondary Master (don't forget to put the CD ROM to Slave). Your data cable may not be capable of Cable Select!"

What do you think?

cant hurt to try, but i dont think that will make any difference since its a software "problem" with NT. unless you can get past the "password" issue, your done.

[mikehende]

That didn't work. Well, I think the ship has sailed, I tried booting now with only the orginal drive and still get the win2k error message, this suggests to me that even though I selected the 2nd drive for installation, looks like it installed on the NT drive?

Think I'll try to load XP for the neighbor and be done with that.

[kern]

That didn't work. Well, I think the ship has sailed, I tried booting now with only the orginal drive and still get the win2k error message, this suggests to me that even though I selected the 2nd drive for installation, looks like it installed on the NT drive?

Think I'll try to load XP for the neighbor and be done with that.

agreed.....

[mikehende]

I haven't given up on the reset password issue and will continue this on my old PII test pc soon, should work better on that becuase I have 2 compatible drives. One final issue before I am done with this thread. Regarding these settings:

Primary Drive 0....................Hard drive
Model WDC e.t.c
Drive Type....Auto
Capacity......20020MB

Primary Drive 1....................Hard drive
Model Maxtor 84320D5
Drive Type....Auto
Capacity......0 MB


Secondary Drive 0...............CD-ROM Reader
Secondary Drive 1...............Unkown device

Can you or anyone else confirm this for me please?

1] Primary Drive 0 refers to the "end" connector of the IDE1 controller?
Primary Drive 1 refers to the "inside" connector of the IDE1 controller?

2] Master drives "must" be on the end connector therefore Slaves drives have to be on the inside connector?

[dbarrow]

That would be the usual logic. Machines that old did not support "auto" or "cable select" on devices as most do now.

[Dan18960]

Mike,

OK - the reset of the Password for NT, Win 2K Pro, Win 2k Server, XP, and Win 2003 Server can ALL be reset via a Linux utility. The "free" one is ONLY an example of how you can change the password and does NOT work (unless you set the Administrator's password to 1234 :eek: ).

The cost is about $175.00. NOW I know you don't want to spend money BUT you have to remember IF you are going to be a consultant, network engineer, or anyway involved in servicing computers as a professional - you are going to HAVE to spend money. I spend at least $2,000. a year on technical tools, utilities, and equipment. Just Windows TechNet Plus is $500, then I also get Novell's technical software which is $500.00.