Graphics Clarity in Linux, My Imagination?

[mylanta]

Again I know from nothing about Linux and am a pathetic noob here, but I am noticing that the graphics seem much better defined than anything I have seen oin Windows. I am using Puppy Linux 2.13 tonight and it just seems to me as I have felt in the past that the fonts stand out and have much greater contrast to them...the whole screen seems to have much better color saturation in general than any of my other suystems with various Windows on them.
This is the Core 2 Duo system with a 17" Dell Lcd dsvi monitor and a pci-x 16 256 meg NVidia 6600 video card. Black seems blacker and blues seem deeper...now you all know I am a photographer so I have a particular color and graphics sensitivity.

[jcampi]

I don't want to seem skeptical, but maybe the improved quality you are experiencing is due to the display and graphics card. The true test would be to use the same monitor and graphics card with a Windows pc. How would the OS get credit for this when everything in a digital world ends up being switched off or on?

[mylanta]

John.
I am. I have Puppy in the same pc as XP as that is the Core 2 Duo I am talking about, just built. Puppy Linux I access off cd and now looking again at the graphics, there really is a big difference as I am on that pc in Windows now. Not that the graphics clarity isn't bad, the colors are just so much more vivid there and as I said the blues are bluer and the blacks really stand out. I have the same video card in all desktops actually as they are 6600 GX Nvidias by Asus.
Now if I could only access my printer I would take XP off this pc as I can use the license to build another unit for sale. This unit has a Canon photo printer and Linux has problems with newer inkjet printers being recognized. Bet I can access the HP Laser in the other room here easily though. hmmmmmm.....
We won't mention the fact that I cannot install Suse 10 at all on this pc. I keep getting error messages all over the place the way I did with Linspire that it cannot complete. I am guessing Linux has a problem with Conroe architecture. I have a few more options to try to install it though. I wish Sus ran from cd but this one does not.

[Tortanick]

Nice to hear that :) I never really checked, and the graphics card on my linux box is sevral years older than my XP box, and the moniter is better, so it wouldn't be a fair test. The graphics certianly are nice though

I can't help with the printers, I never tried printing on Linux. Don't know much about SUSE either, tried it and couldn't stand it.

[kern]

Again I know from nothing about Linux and am a pathetic noob here, but I am noticing that the graphics seem much better defined than anything I have seen oin Windows. I am using Puppy Linux 2.13 tonight and it just seems to me as I have felt in the past that the fonts stand out and have much greater contrast to them...the whole screen seems to have much better color saturation in general than any of my other suystems with various Windows on them.
This is the Core 2 Duo system with a 17" Dell Lcd dsvi monitor and a pci-x 16 256 meg NVidia 6600 video card. Black seems blacker and blues seem deeper...now you all know I am a photographer so I have a particular color and graphics sensitivity.

seems to me that the answer is the "quality" of the video sub-system drivers, not the OS.

[jflan]

John.
I am. I have Puppy in the same pc as XP as that is the Core 2 Duo I am talking about, just built. Puppy Linux I access off cd and now looking again at the graphics, there really is a big difference as I am on that pc in Windows now. Not that the graphics clarity isn't bad, the colors are just so much more vivid there and as I said the blues are bluer and the blacks really stand out. I have the same video card in all desktops actually as they are 6600 GX Nvidias by Asus.

Are the XP video card drivers up to date ?

Now if I could only access my printer I would take XP off this pc as I can use the license to build another unit for sale. This unit has a Canon photo printer and Linux has problems with newer inkjet printers being recognized. Bet I can access the HP Laser in the other room here easily though. hmmmmmm.....

I haven't used it, (not into paid drivers) but I have seen it recommended :
http://www.turboprint.de/english.html


We won't mention the fact that I cannot install Suse 10 at all on this pc. I keep getting error messages all over the place the way I did with Linspire that it cannot complete. I am guessing Linux has a problem with Conroe architecture. I have a few more options to try to install it though. I wish Sus ran from cd but this one does not.

The magazine-issued SUSE DVD is both a live DVD and an install DVD
SUSE 10.2 is in grocery stores this month in Linux Magazine.

[jcampi]

Mylanta, I would have to trust your judgement on the resolution and clarity of the image. Especially with your photography background. I'm still not ready to give Linux (the OS) the credit for this improvement as there could be other variables. Beside the image difference I'm really interested in your experience with Linux. I'd like to see more comments from you on the Linux OS because my experience with you shows you are unbiased and will give an accurate assessment of your experience with Linux.
I've had my same Dell 4550 with it's NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 video card for over three years. I recently upgraded the stock Dell monitor and replaced it with a beautiful new Viewsonic 20" widescreen HD Format monitor. I have the new monitor connected with a DVI cable (same as the previous monitor). The colors, clarity and sharpness are unreal and unmatched by any display I've seen recently. I can't wait to connect this new monitor to the new pc build. In many cases, I think the monitor is more responsible for the improved image than the video card. Especially when simple viewing images and web pages.

[mylanta]

Viewsonic in my experience are the best monitors John.
jflan, thanks for ide but paying $39 to hook up my Canon Pixma 6220D isn't in my forecast of future behavior. I'll figure it out sooner or later.
Of all the Linux versions I loove Puppy and it keeps getting better and better.
I have begun to download programs for it successfully, though half the time I see the download was successful and I still cannot fins the program to use it.
My main interest is how much faster it runs on the internet and the great flow of email. I am also intrigued by the graphics and remember as I said before everyone starts asking video drivers and cards etc, I have XP on the same pc and it looks nothing like the image and clarity of the Linux bootup.
I see no clearcut evidence that Suse live is on this cd but I will look again because I also read that. The interesting thing is at this point I can do almost anything on Linux Puppy I can on Windows, only faster. I have to try harder to find a driver for printer is all.

[Tortanick]

If you're package manager lets you see a list of all installed files and their eventual locations then look for any file thats in one of the following directories and type its name into a commandline to run the program:

/bin
/usr/bin
/sbin
/usr/sbin

Really though it should appear in the start menu by itself. Or are you compileing you're own programs?

you could just enter those folders and look for the most recently created file. That might work

[jcampi]

This thread is interesting, but it displays the issue with Linux again. Most average users are not going to enter command line entires for the OS. Until Linux can run without this stuff it won't be ready for prime time.

[Tortanick]

Well I don't know the spesifics of Rich's problem but on mine everything gets automatically added to the start menu.

And linux never steels you're credit card, Thats user friendly!

[jflan]

Viewsonic in my experience are the best monitors John.
jflan, thanks for ide but paying $39 to hook up my Canon Pixma 6220D isn't in my forecast of future behavior. I'll figure it out sooner or later.
Of all the Linux versions I loove Puppy and it keeps getting better and better.
I have begun to download programs for it successfully, though half the time I see the download was successful and I still cannot fins the program to use it.

Have you tried Konqueror, the desktop manager? I believe it will take you to where Tortanick pointed from within a GUI environment.
It comes with the KDE package.

My main interest is how much faster it runs on the internet and the great flow of email. I am also intrigued by the graphics and remember as I said before everyone starts asking video drivers and cards etc, I have XP on the same pc and it looks nothing like the image and clarity of the Linux bootup.

If it is fast off the LiveCD, it can only get faster when it's on the HD.
Curious, what is your email client ?

I see no clearcut evidence that Suse live is on this cd but I will look again because I also read that. The interesting thing is at this point I can do almost anything on Linux Puppy I can on Windows, only faster. I have to try harder to find a driver for printer is all.

I have the Linux Magazine issued SUSE 10.0 and I believe it is the same as the paid-for version except no Novell support.
At startup the boot options are:

Boot from Hard Disk
Installation
SUSE Linux LiveCD
Installation-ACPI Disabled
Installation-Safe Settings
Rescue System

If you have the openSUSE download these options may not exist or they may be buried somewhere.

SUSE 10.2 is available this month with Linux Magazine at a newsstand or grocery store near you.

[jcampi]

Gee, and I thought Linux didn't have any problems at all. Hmmm.

[Tortanick]

Have you tried Konqueror, the desktop manager? I believe it will take you to where Tortanick pointed from within a GUI environment.
It comes with the KDE package.

Don't use Konqueror with Puppy, use the default file browser. I can make a fair guess that whatever Puppy ships will have less features but be a lot lighter.


If it is fast off the LiveCD, it can only get faster when it's on the HD.

Puppy will try and place the whole OS, including end user applications into a 64MB ramdisk (it can leave stuff on the HD or CD if it has too), so installing to the HD shouldn't make any diffrence at all.


jcampi, I think you're halucinateing ;p no one ever said it has no problems.

[fleamailman]

I run kubuntu 6.10 and XP on the same machine, agreed that the upgrade of kubuntu from 6.05 meant learning a bit, but if I had bought a kubuntu cd 6.10 at 5 dollars from the site I would have had a straight install with out typing much, In fact, from the posts I have seen it is more often the sound than the graphic drivers that are missing, also unlike XP one can launch the os from the cd and see beforehand if any drivers are missing. Still cannot get over the fact that I have run this system for months, no popups, no malware, no need to pay for Office like stuff, no fear of paying for future upgrades like vista, no antivirus to pay for, and they even send you the install CD paying the postage too. So apart for the need to have XP to play games if the mood takes, I really have said goodbye to MS.

[qldit]

Good Morning Gentlemen, I must admit I am a complete Puppy convert, have been since the early Puppy versions, the newer versions have been concentrating on better looking fonts and graphics, the team has been doing a lot of work in this area.

The printer modules is a bit of a pain!
Often going to the Puppy forum and posting a problem will give rapid effective responses but similarly if you try a running a live distro like Kanotix or Knoppix and getting the printer up and running in those systems which for some odd reason usually appears to work, mainly because of the module library being larger (most likely) then at your console command line typing the "lsmod" request will display a list of modules actually loaded, so with luck you may be able to identify the print module and just pinch it and stick it in Puppy.

The extra progam loads, that have not been showing an icon or a an item in the programs sections are currently being addressed and this problem should be fixed in the near future.
Generally most consumers have no need for extra programs additional to what is currently in the Puppy distro.

The addition of Gparted really helped a lot of newbies and this program is extremely useful when pinching space off a present drive to actually load Puppy as a resident system in a dual or multiple boot arrangement.
Anyone trying this in a memory challenged machine might try making a gig of swap space and also a gig or two set as EXT2 file system for the Puppy load.
The gig of swap space adds to the available memory and kind of acts as additional memory without any great performance loss.
This can be beneficial when downloading larger files or various file manipulation processes.
But bear in mind you don't want to "bloat" your puppy, so it is a good idea to take non essential downloads and process them to other drives or whatever to keep your puppy "lean and mean".
Remembering that this system is virtually entirely RAMDrive oriented.

If anyone does try making extra partitions on a currently operational Windows system, pay special attention to confirming that defrag and chkdisk or scandisk programs still run in windows after the partitioning is done.
Gparted for some reason sometimes does something different in the way it partitions, this appears to affect windows drive parameter storage and these programs my not then operate.

There is a CFdisk program usually also contained in Puppy that does not appear to cause this problem when partitioning, but it is not as flashy as Gparted.

It is interesting to observe that Debian based systems rarely have problems loading in most machines, SuSe, Red Hat, Mandrake and Others commonly experience problems or operate in a cantankerous kind of way.
Using Intel machines and cards commonly overcomes these kinds of problems.
There certainly is merit using Intel products for Linux systems exclusively.
Many odd machines go into endless loops during instal or just have the "DUH" syndrome!!!
If this problem might be experienced try a Debian based system, for some reason this is a much superior acceptance for different board idiosynchrasies.
Puppy Linux will load to virtually anything which can be extremely handy for rescues.
But my finding was it is a waste of time on anything less than a Pentium 200, newer laptops are really supercharged, especially with the newer Puppy 2.13 Version, as it's wireless card config and detection is great! (use the networking wizard in the wizard-wizard and select eth0 (usually) then select auto DHCP and in most cases the machine will be immediately online.

Don't forget there is also a firewall included that is a good idea to set, follow the defaults if unsure.

Cheers, Lawrence.

[Tortanick]

then at your console command line typing the "lsmod" request will display a list of modules actually loaded, so with luck you may be able to identify the print module and just pinch it and stick it in Puppy.

Dose that actually work? I thought that the kernel will just have a driver to talk to the printer, but what people actually think of as a printer driver. The code that tells the kernel what to say to the printer would be found in CUPS rather than the kernel itself.


The extra progam loads, that have not been showing an icon or a an item in the programs sections are currently being addressed and this problem should be fixed in the near future.

Well that explains that :)


There is a CFdisk program usually also contained in Puppy that does not appear to cause this problem when partitioning, but it is not as flashy as Gparted.

command line partitioning isn't really that hard, its worth learning IMO.

[qldit]

Good Afternoon Tortanick, that is an interesting question, the "lsmod" command will show many items that get loaded but in some cases if the items are contained in the kernel that may not be so.
I off-hand forget where the actual printer modules normally reside in Puppy, but have played with them in the past.
As I understand there are really only two methods of module loading, those autoloaded and contained in the kernel by demand, and those extras which are either called during boot or by a call-up in the load shedule from a specific directory. Apart from a manual command line load.

But I am more often wrong with these things so don't accept my opinion as the bible!!

Typically the OHCI, UHCI and EHCI modules all involve USB control stuff, so you should see them listed in the lsmod readout, you will also identify sound modules and various others.

Using the modprobe command followed by a module identification number has the ability to load a module (if it is included in the system) to see if it will function and usually give a yes or no kind of indication.
This gets very interesting in many cases where no driver for a specific item is available and quite often sitting and trying various different modules will give a positive result, very often in the cases with printers.
Typically I have a canon i550 printer here and I found a BJC 4000 module operated quite well, so I configged it to load.
But it commonly needs a bit of groping to understand where all these items are located and how and where to add a load request!! LOL!!
Some of these little programs located in Linux, like "ndiswrapper" are really unique because they allow (in the case of a wireless card) a Windows XP driver to be loaded and thus operate satisfactorily in Linux, but I am groping my way through with all this stuff and should be taking notes on everthing I learn, but the problem is that the accelleration with the way the Linux Distros are advancing, you learn something the hard way and a week later it has been automatically addressed, this is especially so with Puppy Linux because so many really clever people are involved with it.
It is in my opinion the most exciting distro to follow, and the Puppy forum contains really meaty information on what is being developed all the time.
Each newer version (one every few months or less) can theoretically be loaded over the top of previous versions so there is a lot of stuff involved if anyone wished to remain current.
There is an advancement with various selected contained programs for logical reasons and these are commonly either up-dated or newer and better replacement programs added as available.
The currrent Puppy Distro with the added modules appears to be the best so far, I think the idea is that when you get your system operating perfectly you can delete unneccessary stuff, but I haven't reached that stage yet. Still groping!!! LOL!!

But I must admit I really don't like working in windows after having had Puppy for a couple of years.

Cheers, qldit.

[Tortanick]

Thats a world away from how I configured my printer. But I checked distrowatch and Puppy dosn't include CUPS. So I really shouldn't be supprised its so diffrent.

I don't think I'd actually have to add anything to the kernel when useing CUPS

[qldit]

Good Afternoon Tortanick, yes there is so much to try to keep up with and so many variations, I have on occasions loaded other systems to get some item working and pinched modules from them to add to Puppy.
I must admit I am really impressed with the ramdrive loads as against the normal systems, but as I learn more stuff I forget other stuff, in that there is so much diversity with the Ramdrive systems it is quite logical that the system be kept lean and mean, so sensible simple low size efficient program selection is paramount.
The interest that Puppy Linux has generated and the massive acceptance with willing assistants is really exciting, there are not many distros with a full repertoire of extremely useable programs that comes anywhere near it in size for it's ability and speed.
It is incredibly progressive and involves a snowballing of polarised expertise.
I really find myself wondering why so much computer power and resources are required to run a commercial system that has the integrity and reliability of a wax candle in a blast furnace!

I normally only operate Puppy Linux and Kanotix, these days, but various Windows series are used for occasional jollies when head shaking exercises are needed.
Sometimes when real extended head shaking exercises are required booting a couple of Windows machines side by side accentuate that exercise!!!

In many cases with elderly people that require a simple reliable system with reliable net surfing and email performance, the Puppy loads have reduced maintenance frequency for service needed for them from several times monthly to several times yearly, the reliability and integrity for simple operational integrity has decimated that of windows and reduced expenses for security programs to nil!!
The machine reliability is also enhanced by not needing continual scans.
I do feel that programs like Puppy are destined to shape the future and make mechanical drives obsolete.
Cheers, qldit.

[Tortanick]

It is incredibly progressive and involves a snowballing of polarised expertise.
I really find myself wondering why so much computer power and resources are required to run a commercial system that has the integrity and reliability of a wax candle in a blast furnace!

Good question a well designed general purpose (that means desktop/server/supercomputer/embedded/crazy-stuff) linux like Debian can run on 98 mb of ram, with the latest KDE! Although it dosen't use a ramdisk like puppy and its a tight fit.


I normally only operate Puppy Linux and Kanotix, these days,


Hasn't Kanotix practically ceased development or something, I'd switch to something else.


In many cases with elderly people that require a simple reliable system with reliable net surfing and email performance, the Puppy loads have reduced maintenance frequency for service needed for them from several times monthly to several times yearly, the reliability and integrity for simple operational integrity has decimated that of windows and reduced expenses for security programs to nil!!

Its not just elderly people, the "should I migrate to Linux" checklist is just two items long:
1) Do I want to play games on this computer?
2) Is there a knowladgeable Linux user to set it up for me?


The machine reliability is also enhanced by not needing continual scans.
I do feel that programs like Puppy are destined to shape the future and make mechanical drives obsolete.
Cheers, qldit.

Hard drives arn't going anywhere (maby machanical ones are but not hard drives) even puppy users need somewhere to store their music collection. Besides their are disadvantages to Ram disks too.

[mylanta]

"In many cases with elderly people that require a simple reliable system with reliable net surfing and email performance, the Puppy loads have reduced maintenance frequency for service needed for them from several times monthly to several times yearly, the reliability and integrity for simple operational integrity has decimated that of windows and reduced expenses for security programs to nil!!
The machine reliability is also enhanced by not needing continual scans.
I do feel that programs like Puppy are destined to shape the future and make mechanical drives obsolete."


You know as much as I would never think Linux will ever replace Windows, there is some merit to this statement. I certainly have clients who when asked what they do on a pc will occasionally answer read email and type an occasional letter. Certainly that client who pays me to come over 3 times a year and reformat his computer because he just cannot remember to be certain his antivirus is updating and update and scan with his spyware programs, could exist on Puppy Linux. If we take what they say they do, which I never accept so I always want them to be able to do more, and allow them to do that much, they can do it without surfing and crapping up their pc's as they go. Puppy Linux is really simple for that.

[mommalina]

Lawrence wrote: I normally only operate Puppy Linux and Kanotix,
these days, but various Windows series are used for occasional Jollies
when head shaking exercises are needed.

Sometimes when real extended head shaking exercises are required booting
a couple of Windows machines side by side accentuate that exercise!!!
I really find myself wondering why so much computer power and resources
are required to run a commercial system that has the integrity and
reliability of a wax candle in a blast furnace!

ROFLMAO!!!! Agree or not, that was funny...

Cheers, Lina

[qldit]

Good Day Everyone, I am not really sure what is happening with Kanotix Tortanick, I do believe one of it's programmers has left, but it seems to have a pretty good forum still operating and although I am only operating the 2006 Easter version, there are later ones available, I was impressed with Knoppix, but was even more surprised that Kanotix was more or less an improved kind of system based on Knoppix.
But all those systems including Mepis and others had incredible versitility as a Live Distro or installed.
I particularly liked the security of Kanotix and it's ease of operating effectiveness with the program selections in the base distro.
Your mention of selection is interesting, I find that people with less computer knowledge are easier to demonstrate and teach how to get their machines functional than those with good basic windows knowledge.
Puppy has good clear program icons and it is so easy for the new user to simply note the icons and process to achieve their aim.
Another benefit is the simple little word processor has a PDF save ability, so that allows simple letters to be written and attached to emails for the more adventurous without using any of the MS type files at all and it can be read by anything.
One other advantage is that a multiple booting machine can so easily be made with an existing windows system and happily co-exist with the plusses of both systems.
It is interesting the way the transition preference gravitates toward the linux system, and of course the Windows drive can still be accessed from Linux, so if a file is wanted, an MP3 or whatever it can easily be accessed and used or played without having to reboot.

Yes Rich, the usual kind of problem with "oldies" using Puppy Linux is caused by their children visiting and "using" their computers, apart from losing odd things the most common problem appears to be shutting down the machine by pressing the power-off or reset button with an incorrect shutdown. When Puppy reboots in that circumstance it only goes to a command line, the Xwindows GUI does not recover.
So that recovery then needs the video program rerun allow the Xwin to be recovered.
Of course that is only a two minute process, and can be explained over the phone but many of the oldies like the chance to have "a cup of tea" and a little bit of human contact, if you know what I mean.
The absence of all the viral stuff is remarkable, many windows machines were commonly viral "crammed", and simply passing stuff between the owner's circle of contacts was very evident.
I feel it is criminal to use a paid system that needs all kinds of expensive ongoing malware support with virtually no inherent integrity.
The way computer surfing and email affects elderly peoples lives is incredible, it gives positive forms of intellecual support, and educative information immediately, as well as family and friends immediate communications at anytime.
A "crummy" old P2-300 or some hand-me -down machine with marginal resources running Puppy Linux, virtually has similar performance to a really reasonable P4 system running Windows.

Yes Momma, once you work with some of these linux systems for a while and use different desktops with multiple programs opened, when you might be doing a couple of different things simultaneously, or work with files altering and renaming, (or whatever) while that file may be in use, and become aware of all the additional little things that windows doesn't have or ability to do, without giving messages telling you that "you have screwed up again"! It becomes very comfortable.
The "task bar" in Puppy has information relevant to the operation in progress, like having a decent dash panel with gauges in your car, MS windows seems to now be cluttered by irrelevant rubbish overload! And is not situation assistive.
It is kind of funny booting a Windows machine, you get the various intros, then you get messages that your A/V system is out of date or some odd update hasn't been done or all kinds of security support programs need updating, and often when you are nicely on line doing something you find all kinds of other unwanted screens appearing with other unsolicited stuff or some background program has decided to run!
Windows Vista will retail here for nearly twice the equivalent price of that in the US, W-XP was only 50% more expensive than in the US, so you may appreciate I really have no interest in giving support for it.

Cheers, Lawrence.