Help, I've fallen and can't GAME!!!! :(

[Leif769]

Ok folks, need some help here... I've built maybe 10+ puters in the last 10 years. Have gone with AMD for the last 8-9 of them, but this time I decided to go with one of the new Intel dual core chips. Took my son's puter and gutted it. I kept the case (4 x 80mm fans) and power supply (430W - Antec True430), the CD/RW and HD. The new parts I swapped are:

-Asus P5NSLI motherboard,
-Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E4300,
-PNY GeForce 7600GS 512mB DDR2 (PCI-E)
-2x 1gB of Corsair RAM (non-value RAM)

I also put back in an older (maybe 2-4 yrs old) SoundBlaster PCI card, and I use RoadRunner cable modem.

My main problem...? I can NOT keep a game running for more than maybe 10-20 minutes, before the screen pixelates/shifts half out of phase! Sometimes now, Yahoo Messenger also just shuts down on me, seemingly at random times. I have not had any troubles with getting online, surfing, emails generally, playing Media Player for both music or videos. All that stuff works fine for hours and hours. It's just that I can't game, and am (almost) worried about having a breakdown or seizure from lack of gameplay... LOL *sigh*

What I have done so far, is swap out the memory and video card, changed the drivers that came with the video card to the latest nVidia drivers, I also have a fresh install of WinXP Home, DX 9.0c, and have loaded all the M/B drivers that came with the M/B. I've tried watching the heat stats, and seem to have no reading over 42-43C, the CPU is steady around 37-38C, and the video card's heatsink/fan is only warm to the touch. I don't know it it would make a difference, but the NorthBridge heat sink is too hot to keep a finger on it for more than a second or two MAX.

I hope someone can help me figure out what the heck is goin on, cause just surfin the web isn't much fun after being a gamer since I had an Apple II+... ;)

PS. Ah yes, the games I have been trying to play, when it locks up on me are :Titan Quest, Galactic Civs 2, Age of Empires 3, and Heroes of Annihilated Empires. I haven't tried any (much) older games like Civ 2, although I do have a few laying around that I could try maybe tonight or tomorrow... Have stayed away from EQ2 and WoW too, no MMORPGs for the last year or so. ;)

[mommalina]

:welcome: to our forum, Leif! You've come to the right place. We have
quite a few gaming addicts here, some with a lot of trouble-shooting savvy.
I'm sure one of them will chime in here soon.

Leif, we encourage and greatly appreciate suggestions and comments about
our board. Please post them in the KH Feedback forum for the immediate
attention of our Administrator and Super Moderators.

Our members would be delighted to also have you join us in our
Wednesday Night KH Computer Help Desk Paltalk chatroom, from 9 pm
EST until 12 am. Here's how to get there:

www.paltalk.com
(Download free version)

..ChatRooms
...\Rooms
....\_Computer and Technology
........\_Computer Help and Advice
............\_Wednesday Night KH Computer Help Desk

For more chatroom details, please check:

http://www.kickenhardware.net/forum/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2006-6-14&e=1&c=1

In the chatroom you can receive or give one-on-one, hands-on help for
computer problems, alert us or learn about new developments in computers
and software. Computer subjects get first priority. If there is a lull, then
humor, finance, and whatever can be discussed intermittently. We try not to
talk about politics or religion-- there's enough disagreement about antivirus
scanners, F-8 and System Restore, motherboards, and Linux vs Vista.

Come join us in our chatroom. The camaraderie is great! .. :tea:

Again, welcome aboard, Leif! .. :yo:


Lina

[mylanta]

I note this board has an Nvidia chipset. Have you installed any of the nVidia software other than the chipset driver? If so I would remove it all.
Did you match this board to ram using site configurators? Core2 Duo cpu's are murder on ram and extremely fussy,and this does sound like a ram issue, especially since you have ruled out heat.
Have you downloaded and run memtest? I would www.memtest.org

[Leif769]

I note this board has an Nvidia chipset. Have you installed any of the nVidia software other than the chipset driver? If so I would remove it all.
Did you match this board to ram using site configurators? Core2 Duo cpu's are murder on ram and extremely fussy,and this does sound like a ram issue, especially since you have ruled out heat.
Have you downloaded and run memtest? I would www.memtest.org

Thanks for the welcome and reply... I did install the nVidia demos, but don't see them on the add/remove hardware screen. I did NOT match the board and RAM, and honestly am not sure what a 'site configurator' is... I've never dealt with a Core2 Duo (or Intel at all for the last 8+ years).

I have noticed that Corsair isn't listed in the MB manual as being officially approved/tested with this MB. I've mostly used Corsair or Kingston over the last decade or so, and didn't want to use value RAM this time.

Question... IS heat totally ruled out? I'm not sure how hot the NorthBridge is supposed to get, but can't touch it for more than a moment. Everything else seems nice and cool/touchable, and that's what the onboard heat sensors say too.

I have NOT used Memtest, but I DID take back the first pair of 1gB Ramsticks (Buffalo brand), and change to Corsair. I've also tried running RAM in both A channels, both B channels, and one stick at a time, in each of the 4 slots. (With both the Buffalo AND the Corsair... so, have a hard time believing 4 sticks of RAM would ALL give me troubles.)

What is a configurator, where would I find it? Am willing to try that, may also go back and get a new PSU... this one hasn't given any troubles that I know of, but it IS I think 4+ years old. I had to get a 20/24 pin adapter for this MB, since this PSU only had the 20 pin...

BTW, if I decide to trade in this MB, any recommendations for something a bit better? This one was on sale for about $116, and I'd rather not spend TOO much more on a MB. One thing I am missing though from my old Asus K8N-E nForce board is the excellent onboard sound it had (mike +4 plugs for my Dolby 5.1 speakers)

[Seth]

Is there a passive heatsink on the NB?

[Leif769]

Is there a passive heatsink on the NB?

Yes there is, don't see any logical way to attach a fan though as an option. Might that be the problem?

[Seth]

Yes there is, don't see any logical way to attach a fan though as an option. Might that be the problem?

Sure, could very well be the ram as Rich suggested as well. Try swapping out the ram, and see if you can get a fan on that HS.

Did you overclock or anything unusual like that? Does that board have jumpers for the FSB and do you know if so, does it match the CPU?

[Leif769]

Sure, could very well be the ram as Rich suggested as well. Try swapping out the ram, and see if you can get a fan on that HS.

Did you overclock or anything unusual like that? Does that board have jumpers for the FSB and do you know if so, does it match the CPU?

I haven't messed around with overclocking... was hoping to be able to, but have never OC'd a system before. Looking at the diagrams and perusing the MB manual I find/see no mention of any jumpers for the FSB, only for clearing the real time clock, and setting to wake from the keyboard/USB device. The box for the CPU says 800MHz FSB.

As far as actually putting a fan on the NorthBridge, there are no holes around it on the MB... I HAVE tried leaving the case open, and directing a pretty high velocity 7-8" fan straight onto the MB... no change in crashing/pixellating tho.

[Seth]

Probably not heat then. BTW-If you want a fan on the NB, you may be able to find one small enough so that the screws will just fit snugly into the HS fins.

My guess is what Rich said. Pixelation while gaming usually indicates a memory problem. Do what you can with the ram...even resort to trying a single stick in each slot.

[Leif769]

Probably not heat then. BTW-If you want a fan on the NB, you may be able to find one small enough so that the screws will just fit snugly into the HS fins.

My guess is what Rich said. Pixelation while gaming usually indicates a memory problem. Do what you can with the ram...even resort to trying a single stick in each slot.

I've tried that with 4 brand new 1gB sticks of RAM... started with 2 from Buffalo, tried dual channel, then one at a time with each stick... took those back and switched to Corsair's premium DDR2 667MHz. Did the same thing, tried both is A channel slots, then B channel, then tried one stick at a time, swapping the sticks among slots on the MB. So, I've tried 4 brand new retail RAM sticks, from 2 different manufacturers, in both dual AND single configs... I can't believe that all 4 were/are defective. I mean I am on this puter right now, and listening to music, surfing, trying to research solutions... ;)

[Seth]

That's all you did to check the ram?:D.

Well I just checked the specs on the board, and now I'm wondering if that DDR2 you have will require 2.2V (your board puts out 2.1 for the ram). I wonder what would happen if you changed the bios Dram to 2.1 instead of auto? NOTE: I wouldn't rule out heat just yet.

CLICKY (http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2820)

[mylanta]

Leif, How many sticks you tried means nothing if they are not approved for the board. You can do it 2 ways. One is to go to Asus site and find your board and then check for compatible ram.
Better would be to go to www.corsair.com and use the configurator by putting in mobo brand and model number and they will tell you what will work. www.kingston.com has the same thing and www.crucial.com guaranties what they recommend will work or money back no questions. Crucial is the best ram of those as it is Micron ram.
And as much as I think that is the problem, it also could easily be using an adapter for 20 pin to 24 pin causing this. The extra 4 pins are there for a reason and many board mfgr's have warnings on their sites to not use 20 pin psu's on their boards.

[Seth]

Rich, I thought about the 20/24 but I checked out the board and ps. The ps is 24 pin.

If there isn't enough voltage going to the ram, that would sure cause issues like this, so swapping out the ps is a good step.

[Leif769]

Leif, How many sticks you tried means nothing if they are not approved for the board. You can do it 2 ways. One is to go to Asus site and find your board and then check for compatible ram.
Better would be to go to www.corsair.com and use the configurator by putting in mobo brand and model number and they will tell you what will work. www.kingston.com has the same thing and www.crucial.com guaranties what they recommend will work or money back no questions. Crucial is the best ram of those as it is Micron ram.
And as much as I think that is the problem, it also could easily be using an adapter for 20 pin to 24 pin causing this. The extra 4 pins are there for a reason and many board mfgr's have warnings on their sites to not use 20 pin psu's on their boards.

Rich, I went to Corsair's site to check the configurator... when entering the data for this MB, it came up with some long message basically stating ERROR... So, it sounds like the RAM and MB aren't compatible... Go figure! *sigh* Well, guess tomorrow it's back to MicroCenter. I am wondering, is there a way to figure out which MBs are compatible with this RAM? Cause I sure wouldn't mind swapping MBs.

The more I think about it, the more I miss that older Asus board and the features it had. Don't know how much difference MBs have just between AMD and Intel CPUs, if any. I'd also prefer a NorthBridge that was fan cooled, if possible.

Sounds like I should get a new PSU at the same time, with a 24 pin ATX connector. What about cases? This case I recycled has a high output/variable fan in the rear, a side fan, and one inside the chasis front cover, although no direct vent to outside the case on that one. All 3 are 80mm, but I still haven't seen any temps over 41C inside the case.

[Seth]

That Antec is a 24 pin.

[Leif769]

That Antec is a 24 pin.

Even being around 4 years old? Cause the old MB was only a 20 pin ATX MB... (Asus K8N-E Deluxe)

[Seth]

Here (http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=P5NSLI)is crucial's recommendation for the board.

[Seth]

Beats me. I checked the model of the Antec and it showed it as a 24. If it is a 20, then I would definitely be getting a 24.

[Leif769]

Here (http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.aspx?model=P5NSLI)is crucial's recommendation for the board.

Nods, thanks, I was just checking that out... Next problem... I can't figure out WHERE the heck I put the plastic case that Corsair came in! Truly this past week hasn't been the easiest one, but I can't imagine I would have tossed it... I am too much of a packrat! Still, before I head back to the store tomorrow, I will look around yet again, and try to find it. I think I will be taking back this MB tho...

Also, looks like Kingston would work too... just NOT Corsair!

[Leif769]

Beats me. I checked the model of the Antec and it showed it as a 24. If it is a 20, then I would definitely be getting a 24.

Maybe they still make that same model... I've been VERY pleased with the several Antec PSUs I've bought, still have that one plus 2 more that run just fine. ;)

[mylanta]

That Antec is a 24 pin.

Maybe it is now as I would bet the model is the same but 4 years ago it was a 20 and Leif says it's a 20 and he used an adapter besides.

[Seth]

I missed Leif's mention of the adapter.

Why the heck would Antec not change the model number when going from a 20 to a 24?

[Leif769]

Is there anyway to seach for MBs that would be compatible with this RAM, instead of vice-versa?

Man, I gotta say, when y'all start helping out on here, it's nice to see some quick replies! ;)

[Seth]

I'd attempt a proper 24 pin psu first. Reason being, it's much easier and cheaper than a new board, and you've already tried a few different types of ram.

[Leif769]

I'd attempt a proper 24 pin psu first. Reason being, it's much easier and cheaper than a new board, and you've already tried a few different types of ram.

And you think that would help, even with having this Asus MB and Corsair RAM that isn't listed as being ideal/compatible? I am no techie... just know enough to get myself in trouble at times, that's why I ask so many questions! ;)

[mylanta]

I missed Leif's mention of the adapter.

Why the heck would Antec not change the model number when going from a 20 to a 24?

I don't know but I have Thermaltake's that are listed as 20 pin that shipped as 24 for the same reason.

[Seth]

And you think that would help, even with having this Asus MB and Corsair RAM that isn't listed as being ideal/compatible? I am no techie... just know enough to get myself in trouble at times, that's why I ask so many questions! ;)

Even if you get a new board, you're still going to need a 24 pin psu. So why not just get the proper psu now, and see how the ram works out with it?

BTW-What are the specs on the ram? Do they match the specs from the crucial link I posted?

[Leif769]

Just tell me to chill out if I ask too many Q's or get too wordy. It's my Saturday, since I get Sun and Mon nights off... so I'll be trying to figure this stuff out for the next 36 hours or so ;)

[Leif769]

OK, pulled one of the modules, since I can't find the packaging... GRR

it's Corsair CM2x1024-6400 5-5-5-12 800MHz XMS6405v5.1

Does that help with figuring out the specs on it?

[Leif769]

OK, pulled one of the modules, since I can't find the packaging... GRR

it's Corsair CM2x1024-6400 5-5-5-12 800MHz XMS6405v5.1

Does that help with figuring out the specs on it?

Actually, plugging that part number in on Corsair's website, it says that this MB "IS" compatible with this RAM... so, maybe it's the PSU then. Makes as much sense as anything else to me, at this point. In that case, I have a lot more options for places to go pick up a PSU/case

[Seth]

Given that you've tried at least two different types of ram, as well as the issue being highly intermittent, suggests the issue the 20 pin psu on a 24 pin board. I'm willing to bet the ram isn't getting enough current.

[Seth]

I'd use some ingenuity and get a fan on that NB as well.

[Leif769]

I'd use some ingenuity and get a fan on that NB as well.

Thanks for the tips Seth! :) What about when I get a new PSU, do you think getting a new case, maybe with a couple 120mm fans or a 200mm fan + a 120mm fan, would that help?

I haven't tried setting the voltage at 2.1V yet, cause I wanted to read up on doing that, been browsing Tom's Hardware looking into it a bit ;) I'd rather understand the how and why of things BEFORE just doing them... :)

BTW, I DO have several 80mm fans just laying around... it's a matter of figuring out how the heck to attach one... that NB heatsink looks like a rather in-efficient design to ME!

[Seth]

Thanks for the tips Seth! :) What about when I get a new PSU, do you think getting a new case, maybe with a couple 120mm fans or a 200mm fan + a 120mm fan, would that help?

I haven't tried setting the voltage at 2.1V yet, cause I wanted to read up on doing that, been browsing Tom's Hardware looking into it a bit ;) I'd rather understand the how and why of things BEFORE just doing them... :)

BTW, I DO have several 80mm fans just laying around... it's a matter of figuring out how the heck to attach one... that NB heatsink looks like a rather in-efficient design to ME!

Ya, that's one wacky HS. Should be able to rig something up so that the fan screws make it in snug to the HS's slots.

I don't know if the ram you have requires 2.2v. Google the ram numbers and you should be able to find out. Either way, because of the incorrect psu, I don't think your getting sufficient current to the ram.

As far as heat goes, I've learned not to trust Windows based thermal monitoring. The bios usually has decent temp monitoring, but for me, I simply touch the component to really know what's going on. If the cpu temp is fine, I wouldn't worry too much about heat other than a fan on the NB.

[Leif769]

OK Seth, have seen sites saying this RAM needs 2.0V and one said it used 2.1V... what exactly does changing the voltage like that DO? Also, what are the risks of turning it up? Looking at my bios, if I go manual, 2.1V is the highest setting available...

[Seth]

OK Seth, have seen sites saying this RAM needs 2.0V and one said it used 2.1V... what exactly does changing the voltage like that DO? Also, what are the risks of turning it up? Looking at my bios, if I go manual, 2.1V is the highest setting available...

Go to the manufacturers site to find the correct voltage. Changing it in the bios will simply change the amount of voltage that is allowed to the ram. A .1 difference isn't going to wreck the ram, but it could cause intermittent instability. With that being said, voltage and current aren't the same. Given that you're using a 20 to 24 pin adapter, means that some hot wires are bridged. This won't change the voltage, but will reduce the current (measured in milliamps).

[Leif769]

Well Seth, I went and got a new case (a Xion II), which came with a PSU, (450W). Made sure I got one with 24 pins... got it all put together in the new case without a problem, but still crashes when gaming.

The Northbridge DOES seem to be a little cooler IMHO. I got this new case cause I really wanted some more cooling, beyond just 3-80mm fans. This new case looks nice, but better yet, it has a 120mm fan (intake) in the front, blowing directly over my HDDs, an 80 on the side (blows directly on the RAM) and a 120mm fan exhausting through the rear. It's quiet as all get out, compared to what I am used to! BUT... still can't game! :laser: :mad:

Leif

One thing I did notice on this "450W" PSU... it says that +12V max load is 17A. That sounds a bit low for this MB, according to the MB manual, unless I am running a 'light load'. Maybe I still need to get a better PSU?

[mylanta]

Leif I sure hope we advised you better than that, because there have to be hundreds of posts here telling users "never buy cases with psu's" in them and I would bet what you are using is way worse than what was in there.
Here are the acceptable brands for most techs and yes in this case the brand makes an enormous difference:
Antec, Enermax, Thermaltake, and Sparkle as actually these are the primary makers of power supplies. The exception is an Antec or Enermax case you can buy with psu in, though they have been known to use other cheapos in thier cases so you have to be careful.

[Leif769]

Leif I sure hope we advised you better than that, because there have to be hundreds of posts here telling users "never buy cases with psu's" in them and I would bet what you are using is way worse than what was in there.
Here are the acceptable brands for most techs and yes in this case the brand makes an enormous difference:
Antec, Enermax, Thermaltake, and Sparkle as actually these are the primary makers of power supplies. The exception is an Antec or Enermax case you can buy with psu in, though they have been known to use other cheapos in thier cases so you have to be careful.

Rich, thanks... I rather wondered. Being new here, I hadn't read any posts warning about buying a case/PSU combo. Will see about going and buying a quality PSU pronto.

What rather irks me, is that at the closest PC shop, the guy I talked to who is the owner/manager, told me that his PSUs were cheaper than the Antec I asked about by $30-40, and he had sold hundreds with not a single one coming back with a complaint. I won't be going back there for a real PSU, or other parts either! ;)

I AM satisfied with the case though.

[Leif769]

Talking to a local shop (DIFFERENT ONE) that builds puters, the tech I talked to said he'd see about swapping the MB. He said that the passive HS for the NorthBridge shouldn't get too hot to touch... sound reasonable?

Finally found a third local shop, and after talking to the tech there, he recommended switching out my CD/RW. Only thing I have to swap is a DVD 16x... hope that will work. Otherwise gonna try a new PSU or MB... buying another DVD drive would be cheaper tho... *crosses fingers*

[Seth]

I'd say it's very reasonable regarding the NB.

Your issue can have many causes, however with everything you've told us, the main culprits will indeed be either the psu, the ram, or insufficient power to the ram caused by the psu or something else.

If the above were to be ruled out, the next culprit is the video card. Many video card manufacturers will recommend specific bios settings for a particular video card. So this may be something you'll want to look into.

[Leif769]

I'd say it's very reasonable regarding the NB.

Your issue can have many causes, however with everything you've told us, the main culprits will indeed be either the psu, the ram, or insufficient power to the ram caused by the psu or something else.

If the above were to be ruled out, the next culprit is the video card. Many video card manufacturers will recommend specific bios settings for a particular video card. So this may be something you'll want to look into.

Well, I tried a new PSU. Picked up an Antec TP3-650 at Best Buy, as they happened to be on sale for $120. Taking out that PSU that came with the case was a very noticeable difference... both weight and amount of cabling coming out of the unit. The Antec has over twice as many... heh, far more than I need, but it has several that would be useful someday when I get SATA drives, video cards that need the 6 pin added power cable, etc.

One thing I find odd... when I plug the 2 pin connector (blue and black) onto the proper connector on the MB for the PSU fan, Asus Probe doesn't recognize that there is even a PSU fan running, and sounds an alarm. I verified that yes, the PSU fan IS running, albeit very quietly. (120mm PSU fan!) Something else I like about this PSU, is that it has three +12V outputs.

About the only part I haven't tried swapping is the MB itself... guess that's what I'll be doing tomorrow. ;) Really, I am ending up spending more than I had figured on... BUT, once I can get it gaming stable/consistantly, it should be an interesting project to figure out how to OC it, something I've never done before.

Project for tonight... seeing if I can mess around with the BIOS and figure out a recommended BIOS setting for this PNY 7600 GS card. :)

[mylanta]

You mentioned Asus Probe...if you have that Asus hardware monitoring software installed , please remove it as that could cause some of the problem as well. And what do you have running for a firewall...Comodo by any chance seems to be linked to freezing in gaming as well.

[Leif769]

You mentioned Asus Probe...if you have that Asus hardware monitoring software installed , please remove it as that could cause some of the problem as well. And what do you have running for a firewall...Comodo by any chance seems to be linked to freezing in gaming as well.

What then, do I use to monitor MB and CPU temps? I'll go ahead and uninstall it...

As far as firewalls go, I've used ZoneAlarm for the last hmm, maybe 6 years or so. I have never had any problems with it and online gaming... just tell it to allow those programs (DAoC and EQ2)

[mylanta]

Speedfan...http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

[Freehold Fred]

For next time, if there is a next time:

http://snipurl.com/PSTesters

[Leif769]

For next time, if there is a next time:

http://snipurl.com/PSTesters

Thanks for the link Fred, even though I still can't game, I am a lot more comfortable knowing I have another Antec PSU. The old one still was working just fine when I decided to build/recycle what I could, so I am holding on to it. (I'm a packrat anyways... one more thing to find room to stack it somewhere) ;)

At this point, I guess I'll be shutting down and switching MBs, in a half hour or so... ;)

BTW, as far as Asus Probe goes, I've run it on the last 3 Asus MBs I've bought, and always been able to have the systems up and running... not sure if AMD vs. Intel makes a difference???

[kern]

Thanks for the link Fred, even though I still can't game, I am a lot more comfortable knowing I have another Antec PSU. The old one still was working just fine when I decided to build/recycle what I could, so I am holding on to it. (I'm a packrat anyways... one more thing to find room to stack it somewhere) ;)

At this point, I guess I'll be shutting down and switching MBs, in a half hour or so... ;)

BTW, as far as Asus Probe goes, I've run it on the last 3 Asus MBs I've bought, and always been able to have the systems up and running... not sure if AMD vs. Intel makes a difference???

I've had good results with Asus motherboards, and have used the Asus Probe on all without incident as well. That said, they were all AMD based systems...

[dbarrow]

You have an Nvidia card and I don't follow the Nvidia problems but...
ATI cards and drivers have this fan problem that has been known and talked about for some time.
Thermal sensing is supposed to throttle the fan up and down according to temp range. On high, they tend to be rather loud. Particularly in 3D, they should rapidly throttle up as gaming will heat them up fast.
They don't~!
The fans stay stuck on idle speed!
Results range from strange display to game dumps. Usually vid ram memory errors. This happens at temps far below what would be expected.
The tool of choice for ATI cards is the Ray Adams ATI Tray Tool where you can set a fan profile in the Hardware tab with manual override and run it full speed.
That option is not available in the ATI control panel.
The second problem is in the driver which is known to revert back to the default or second profile created after exiting the game dropping the fan back down to idle speed and then it won't throttle up the next time you enter 3D.
The cure for that is having a second manual profile at 100% so it will revert to that.
After going through all of this, I can finally keep my ATI vid card fan running at full tilt and not crashing the games after twenty minutes.

As if that isn't bad enough... poor design on the little intake and very small fins on the cooler makes it clog solid with a mat of dirt that must be cleaned monthly. Replacing the whole cooler and heat sink assembly with an alternative solution or water block would require considerable work.

Having had to modify a few vid card coolers before to keep them from overheating and causing strange video problems, I always suspect a heat problem with the card and these problems only become apparent when playing very video intensive 3D games. They won't appear under any other normal use as the GPU and vid ram only get that kind of heat generating stress when gaming.

All the other suggestions are valid and something you have to eliminate one at a time until you hit the solution.

[Seth]

Seth wrote:
Your issue can have many causes.


Doug wrote
All the other suggestions are valid and something you have to eliminate one at a time until you hit the solution.


As you're experiencing Leif, computer repair is much more complex than any other type of repair business. When someone comes by to fix your furnace or a plumbing, the problem is straight forward and evident, The replacement part will last for years, and the repair man walks away confident knowing that his work is done. Not so with computers.

The computer tech must first determine if the problem is software or hardware. With many computer problems, it can be impossible to tell unless a clean install is performed. Any particular problem often has numerous possible causes, and fixing one problem may produce another.

No matter how good a tech is, hardware problems are often best addressed by swapping out the most likely components.

[dbarrow]

Hardware swapping is the easy part! Consider yourself lucky if it's only a hardware problem!

Hunting down a software glitch, like the fan speed problem, is research, research, research! Fortunately, with the state of web search engines today, you can query a particular software problem and find some link to a likely answer. That only comes after following and reading link after link after link and threads that go nowhere. It's often like finding the one grain of sand on the beach! It often involves tying up all the scraps of information from all the sources and modifying your searches into new branches and directions.
After all that work.... you often find an amazingly simple answer!

[Seth]

Hardware swapping is the easy part! Consider yourself lucky if it's only a hardware problem!

Hunting down a software glitch, like the fan speed problem, is research, research, research!

That's so true.

Hardware is easy to swap out for an experienced tech who has all sorts of spare parts. On the other hand, software problems can often produce brain bleed for hours.

Take the HP in my shop right now with a corrupt registry. I won't bore you with all the frustrating details on trying to repair the hive, or the numerous other unusual software problems I had with it. But anyway, the user tried a non-destructive recovery (an XP repair), which didn't fix the reg problems (it almost never does). Normally, I can fix a hive, but this time I gave up. I backed up the pictures she wanted and performed a destructive recovery (format/clean install). And guess what? XP still wouldn't boot. Imagine my despair when I was presented with, "Windows could not start....system32\config\SYSTEM." So, either the hard drive is dying and is blowing config files (the system's only three months old), or the recovery partition is corrupt.

Chkdsk /r shows "Unrecoverable Errors" but will run fine and produce no errors when I run it while slaving the drive on a bench computer. Seagate diagnostics show the drive as functioning correctly. In other words, I did all that work only to discover that the recovery partition has corrupt registry files. And all this occured when she plugged in a USB flash drive and the computer shut down.

Now I'm faced with zero writing the drive, a manual install, getting drivers and all updates, as well as considering options for replacing the original applications that she may need.

Or, she can wait a week while I order the recovery cd's...since she ignored the repeated messages to make them.

[Leif769]

As you're experiencing Leif, computer repair is much more complex than any other type of repair business. When someone comes by to fix your furnace or a plumbing, the problem is straight forward and evident, The replacement part will last for years, and the repair man walks away confident knowing that his work is done. Not so with computers.

The computer tech must first determine if the problem is software or hardware. With many computer problems, it can be impossible to tell unless a clean install is performed. Any particular problem often has numerous possible causes, and fixing one problem may produce another.

No matter how good a tech is, hardware problems are often best addressed by swapping out the most likely components.

Alrighty folks, I am home again with a new MB. I stayed with the same model as I've liked the Asus boards I have used over the last 6 or 7 years.

I am up and running again, so I'll try gaming in a few. Something else I got while at MicroCenter... a REAL CPU cooler. Since I don't want to mess with water cooling yet, I got a Zalman CNPS7700-Cu LED. Spent $60 on it, but this thing is pretty darn huge! Used plenty of silver grease, and this thing is quiet as heck, even at max fan speed. I can barely hear a hum at around 2000RPM, can't hear it at ALL at the min speed of 1000RPM.

It should help cool the NorthBridge also a lot better, as it overlaps it a bit (120mm fan!), and I made sure I got the all copper one, not the copper/aluminum version.

It booted right up, so we'll see what happens. This is it for parts tho... new case and PSU, CPU, MB, RAM, video card and cables. The only things left over are my 2x HDs, speakers and CD/RW.

[Leif769]

That's so true.

Hardware is easy to swap out for an experienced tech who has all sorts of spare parts. On the other hand, software problems can often produce brain bleed for hours.

LOL, I know this case all so well, as I've built a bunch of puters over the last decade. I'd MUCH rather deal with troubleshooting hardware, even if driving across town 4 times has been a pain. Part of what's been a bit different this time has been switching from AMD to Intel, when I've been building only AMD systems since about 1998. ;) The last Intel I had was a P90 with a 1.2GB hard drive...LOL, my wife at the time had a Cyrix 133. *chuckles*

[Leif769]

OK, gotta get some sleep before work tonight... seems like I can run TitanQuest for a bit longer, but still pixellates on me after some odd minutes.

One thing I did do, was run System Mechanic 7.0, and it said I had many registry entries which needed to be cleaned up, invalid shortcuts, etc. It says my system is all clean now, but still locks up while gaming.

Might it have something to do with which USB ports I have stuff plugged into? The only USB item I am running is my Microsoft wireless mouse.

Will try to check back before work... y'all have a good day. :)

[mylanta]

Quit using crap like System Mechanic I would bet that is your problem. Turn loose anything in registry and then surprise at lockup? Not I!
Time to reformat and do motherboard drivers, Windows updates, programs and no utilities. No Asus tools, no other utilities either. Use the chipset from mob and that is it!

[dbarrow]

Is it just that game or all games?
Once again, back to that research!
If you note the monthly ATI driver update, most of the time it is nothing more than "fixes" for particular games.
It is not that uncommon to have a problem between the game and the vid driver where it simply acts up on a particular combination of hardware.
Start with an intensive search of the game title and look for gaming forums where you see problems posted.
They may either have a solution or at least identify a similar problem. The gripes and problems are usually the first to show up in forums related to the game. I can recall several where I had to hunt down the problem and the fix.
Red Orchestra was a monumental bug fest for some time after the initial release and the various fixes were up in forums long before any official patch.

[Leif769]

Quit using crap like System Mechanic I would bet that is your problem. Turn loose anything in registry and then surprise at lockup? Not I!
Time to reformat and do motherboard drivers, Windows updates, programs and no utilities. No Asus tools, no other utilities either. Use the chipset from mob and that is it!

Well, actually, if anything using System Mechanic seemed to let me play longer. The last couple days, most of the time the 4 games I have been trying to play-test would only run 1-2 minutes... after using SysMech, today TQ ran for about 10 min. I've used SysMech 6.0 for the last year, and when it says I have too much HD clutter, registry problems, need to defrag, etc... AFTER I do so, everything runs smoother, programs load faster, surfing is smoother, XP loads faster, etc.

I'll see about reformatting and (once AGAIN!) re-registering XP. Every time I reformat drives, I always miss the simple days of Win98 and 2K Pro. This retarded having to call MS to re-register XP is a pain in the rear and a waste of time, IMHO! ;)

Tomorrow looks somewhat busy, so might be a day or two till I can get things done and get back with y'all ;)

[dbarrow]

It happens in all 3D games and takes ten minutes?
You have a bad vid card or severe heat problem with the card.
If it starts out ok and takes time to farkle, that would indicate something heating up on the card. Heatsink may not be properly attached to the GPU, vid ram is heating up, fan does not run to speed, etc.
I would seriously consider RMA on the card.

[Leif769]

It happens in all 3D games and takes ten minutes?
You have a bad vid card or severe heat problem with the card.
If it starts out ok and takes time to farkle, that would indicate something heating up on the card. Heatsink may not be properly attached to the GPU, vid ram is heating up, fan does not run to speed, etc.
I would seriously consider RMA on the card.

Well, left in only one HDD and re-partitioned and formatted it and did a clean install of XP Home. I have only done the MB drivers (+audio & network), and video card drivers. Gotta head out soon, so can't mess around long right now.

When I first started building this puter, I DID take back the RAM... then the Video card, then the MB. All those parts are brand-new, as are the PSU, CPU, CPU Cooler, and case. The IDE cable for my HDDs is new too. All that is recycled is the DVD (6 months old) and the IDE cable for it, plus the audio cable between the MB and DVD drive.

So... this is the 2nd new video card, same exact model and brand. I haven't seen the CPU or the MB hit 40C yet, and the exhaust air feels about the same as room temp (maybe 68F?) Hard (for me) to imagine BOTH vid cards would be overheating for some reason. I'd think at this point it would almost have to be some sort of resource conflict, driver problems, etc... something software related... *shrugs* Haven't tried gaming yet this morning, am tired as heck and have a lot to do today... ;)

[mylanta]

Second new video card means nothing. I have sent a pci-express card back to Asus Rma 3 times now. They send it back with a very well worded letter explaining it is repaired and I send it back again because it still doesn't work. When I have a component not work, I never reorder same one, but of course with rma it cannot be helped.
If you believe in futilities like System Mechanic, I'm also afraid we probably cannot help you as your systems are destined to never work right.
I will never forget years ago talking to a high level tech at Ms and asking why the first question they ask is "have you used any third party utility programs".
His reply was their Tech Support wing he was sitting in, was fully funded and paid for with service calls from users using Norton Futilities alone and once they know the utility program you used, they can read you the fix, as the problems they cause are so widely known. He also said if there was a utility
Windows needed that was not already in an OS, they would probably be arranging to buy the company soon to get it. In other words use those little programs all you like, they are counting on just that to stay in business. From that day forward I have never used any 3rd party tweak or futility program and I never have the problems I read aboutin the forums all the time and try to help with. I also never overclock anything, and seldom if ever use free programs. If it's free, I want to know why and if there is no adequate answer, it satys out of my systems.

[Seth]

Wow Leif, you're really going through the ringer with this one. I think we should all go back to using an Etch-A-Sketch :D.

Seriously, how about trying a completely different video card?

[Leif769]

Wow Leif, you're really going through the ringer with this one. I think we should all go back to using an Etch-A-Sketch :D.

Seriously, how about trying a completely different video card?

Seth, I may just have to try doing that. My system is TOTALLY clean now, nothing extra downloaded, installed, etc... yet, I just opened and istalled Dawn of War:Dark Crusade, brand new game, and same thing... after 5 minutes it starts looping the sound and pixellates the screen.

I am too tired to drive down to MicroCenter again, today, gonna have to wait for tomorrow or Friday. Cancelled my errands and heading to bed! ;)

PS. Does Etch-A-Sketch come in 32 bit color? ;)

[Leif769]

Second new video card means nothing. I have sent a pci-express card back to Asus Rma 3 times now. They send it back with a very well worded letter explaining it is repaired and I send it back again because it still doesn't work. When I have a component not work, I never reorder same one, but of course with rma it cannot be helped.
If you believe in futilities like System Mechanic, I'm also afraid we probably cannot help you as your systems are destined to never work right.
I will never forget years ago talking to a high level tech at Ms and asking why the first question they ask is "have you used any third party utility programs".
His reply was their Tech Support wing he was sitting in, was fully funded and paid for with service calls from users using Norton Futilities alone and once they know the utility program you used, they can read you the fix, as the problems they cause are so widely known. He also said if there was a utility
Windows needed that was not already in an OS, they would probably be arranging to buy the company soon to get it. In other words use those little programs all you like, they are counting on just that to stay in business. From that day forward I have never used any 3rd party tweak or futility program and I never have the problems I read aboutin the forums all the time and try to help with. I also never overclock anything, and seldom if ever use free programs. If it's free, I want to know why and if there is no adequate answer, it satys out of my systems.

Thanks for the info Rich. Yes, I have used System Mechanic and similiar programs in the past and had good results... I've never called MS tech support before, maybe I should this time? LOL

The thing is, this time I have NOTHING beyond MB drivers, DX, video and audio, and ethernet drivers installed. At least I can still surf the web all I want, eh? ;) Guess I can check into a better video card... maybe a 7900 or 7950, something like that. Will have to start researching prices, see if I can find better deals than MicroCenter.

[dbarrow]

Looping sound?
Try pulling the sound card so there is no sound processing.
Now we are in an entirely new area and yes, sound processing can stall out the video as vid has to wait until the sound is resolved.

[kern]

I'll see about reformatting and (once AGAIN!) re-registering XP. Every time I reformat drives, I always miss the simple days of Win98 and 2K Pro. This retarded having to call MS to re-register XP is a pain in the rear and a waste of time, IMHO! ;)

Leif,
You can avoid the hassle of re-activating XP by 'reusing' the activated wpa.dbl and wpa.bak files. They can be found in the C:\Windows\System32 folder- copy them to a floppy(or other media), then when and if you need to do a wipe and load, replace those 2 files as follows:

After the XP re-installation process has completed, your pc will reboot.
Do not allow it to boot 'normally'---> boot into 'safe mode'.
Browse to the System32 folder and replace the wpa file(s) using those from the floppy. Then reboot. XP should be activated.
NOTE: This is not a hack- its a legit way of re-installing XP to the EXACT same system- this will not work if you change hardware, or try to use it on a different pc.

[mylanta]

Nice one Rob, I had never heard of that.

[Leif769]

Looping sound?
Try pulling the sound card so there is no sound processing.
Now we are in an entirely new area and yes, sound processing can stall out the video as vid has to wait until the sound is resolved.

The sound is on-board... took the older CL brand card out, since this board is supposed to have pretty good sound on it. Should I see about disabling the sound somehow?

[dbarrow]

You can disable the onboard in BIOS. I would, just to rule out sound and sound driver issues. Never know...

[Leif769]

Rob, that IS an interesting idea! Usually when this happens, I am reconfiguring, swapping drives, etc, but good to keep in mind for future tries.

[Leif769]

well, am up and running, and time to head to work... I went ahead and upgraded to an eVGA GF 7900GS, only 256Mb of onboard RAM, but running nice and smoothly. Looks great, and I was able to play DoW:DC for maybe 30 minutes before all of a sudden the puter just rebooted on me, no pixellation tho!

I haven't installed ANY extra stuff yet beyond drivers for the monitor and new video card (and DoW). So... now it looks like maybe that PNY 7600GS just didn't like my setup. Just gotta figure out how to avoid rebooting on it's own. ;) Progress of a sort, at least :) 30 min is a lot better than 1-5 minutes...

[Seth]

Sweet.

Disable the auto restart on errors (google it). With any luck, an error code will show instead of the restart.

[kern]

well, am up and running...I was able to play DoW:DC for maybe 30 minutes before all of a sudden the puter just rebooted on me, no pixellation tho!
Just gotta figure out how to avoid rebooting on it's own. ;) Progress of a sort, at least :) 30 min is a lot better than 1-5 minutes...

disable 'auto restart on system failure:
system properties, 'advanced' tab, startup and recovery section 'settings' button, system failure section uncheck 'automatically restart', apply, ok.

[Leif769]

disable 'auto restart on system failure:
system properties, 'advanced' tab, startup and recovery section 'settings' button, system failure section uncheck 'automatically restart', apply, ok.

Thanks Rob (and Seth) :)

I got home today, did that, and was able to play an entire level before heading to the gym and getting my son off to school. No problems, played smooth and flawlessly. I did NOT disable the onboard sound... ONLY that auto-restart. That is ALL I changed...

Maybe I need to play some mroe and 'make sure' everything works for extended periods of time... *chuckles* What a task... HAVING to game to make sure everything acts the way it should! :D

[Seth]

Thanks Rob (and Seth) :)

I got home today, did that, and was able to play an entire level before heading to the gym and getting my son off to school. No problems, played smooth and flawlessly. I did NOT disable the onboard sound... ONLY that auto-restart. That is ALL I changed...

Maybe I need to play some mroe and 'make sure' everything works for extended periods of time... *chuckles* What a task... HAVING to game to make sure everything acts the way it should! :D

I've encountered that before. That is, I disabled the auto restart on errors and the restart issue was solved with no error shown. After that, I kept an eye on Event Viewer, but no errors of relevance remained. BTW-Check Event Viewer for errors.

[dbarrow]

Yes, do keep watch on the EVENT VIEWER and see if it starts recording errors. They could point to a specific problem.
You may also have a vid card log of some sorts.
ATI has an event log that shows in the EVENT VIEWER but also has a couple secondary log files that record errors.
You may want to research if your Nvidia maintains any kind of error logging.
The other problem with some of the logging is momentary hiccups in game while it does that.

[Leif769]

Well, I played for an hour plus earlier, and let my son get on my new puter and he just played for around 2 hours with nary a hiccup from the machine... not even reboots. :D

[Leif769]

Alright guys, it lasted for maybe 24 hours...*sigh* Today I was tinkering around a bit, thinking about getting into the Bios to see about overclocking.

At first, I used the MB's setting "AI overclock 20%"... seemed to run fine, but the CPU was still showing up as 1.80 GHz (x2), so, I got back in the Bios and took off the "AI overclock" and set it to Manual... was looking through some of the settings, but decided not to screw around too much yet, so I changed it back to the "Auto" setting... which shouldn't mean OC'ing at all, I thought.

I did the Save and exit, rebooted, and since then I can't get any signal at all to my LCD monitor. Normally (and with this puter, my old one) when I power on, the monitor has a little box that flashes up while it is still dark screeen, and says "digital" (or "analog" if running a CRT monitor).

Since resetting the Bios to "Auto" though, nothing at all happens on the monitor, and if I leave it alone after 30 seconds or so, I get a long (5-6sec?) beep from the little PC speaker on the MB. It will repeat after a bit if I do nothing.

IF I hit DEL a few times, it never does that, but still can't get any signal to the monitor (I am guessing)...

Gonna see if I can google something that mighyt explain what to do in this case, or what may have happened. My buddy says maybe I fried the CPU, but at only 20%? Which is the MB's MAX Bios setting for the AI Overclock function? That seems pathetically low to fry a chip which several OC guides say should run stable at about 85% OC'd!

[dbarrow]

Auto setting may not be a correct OC. The mobo should revert back to defaults after a failed OC. Does it have a reset switch on the board? Most newer ones do, press once and it will revert to stock. If not, pull the battery for 10 seconds.
It should have a fail-safe BIOS that will revert to stock setting.

Read the OC info in the manual ... and hit a bunch of forums relating to OC on that mobo before you dabble in OC settings. You may need to LOCK the PCIe/AGP clock before bumping up other settings.
Find a forum where someone lists settings that work and start with them working up slowly.

[Leif769]

Auto setting may not be a correct OC. The mobo should revert back to defaults after a failed OC. Does it have a reset switch on the board? Most newer ones do, press once and it will revert to stock. If not, pull the battery for 10 seconds.
It should have a fail-safe BIOS that will revert to stock setting.

Read the OC info in the manual ... and hit a bunch of forums relating to OC on that mobo before you dabble in OC settings. You may need to LOCK the PCIe/AGP clock before bumping up other settings.
Find a forum where someone lists settings that work and start with them working up slowly.

Well, I tried following the instructions in the MB manual... pulled the battery after unplugging power, changed the jumper to the "clear Bios" setting for the 5-10 sec, then put the jumper back to the default position, replaced the battery, plugged her in, and... Nada. Even tried a different monitor. The puter seems to boot up alright, just the monitor doesn't seem to sense any signal at all.

As far as Asus' info in the manual... it's very skimpy. I don't know why they bother. All they really seem to do, is to tell you exactly what the Bios screen tells you... it doesn't explain anything, just repeats it verbatim. When I can get it running and visible again, I will definately read about OCing THAT MB... I had been more reading about how to OC that PCU. ;)

In any case, I don't see any reset switch, per se... I just followed the manual. I was reading about how if the system hangs due to OCing, that upon reset, this MB will automatically reset the CPU parameters to their default settings.

[dbarrow]

Machine appears to be going through POST, beeps, and screen stays black?
Do you SEE the POST and then loose signal or never get anything?
Vid card crapped, monitor crapped, loose monitor cable.
Reseat and replug!

I had something similar where (deny,deny,deny) the box must have gotten a good swift kick! I found the vid card just slightly out of the slot.
There is a beep code for vid card error.

Going back to your original video problems, the card may have been bad from the start and finally kicked the bucket.
I had a vid card die with similar symptoms until one day it was just black with no signal.

[Leif769]

Machine appears to be going through POST, beeps, and screen stays black?
Do you SEE the POST and then loose signal or never get anything?
Vid card crapped, monitor crapped, loose monitor cable.
Reseat and replug!

I had something similar where (deny,deny,deny) the box must have gotten a good swift kick! I found the vid card just slightly out of the slot.
There is a beep code for vid card error.

Going back to your original video problems, the card may have been bad from the start and finally kicked the bucket.
I had a vid card die with similar symptoms until one day it was just black with no signal.

I'll try reseating the card, but the card is brand new... had it maybe 2 days, and actually had the system working for about 24 hours.

But No, I never see anything when I boot up. The monitor NEVER recognizes that 'Hey! There's a puter attached to me!' ;)

Thinking that I may try swapping MBs for a Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3. I've seen a couple OCing guides for exactly that board and the CPU I have (E4300).

[dbarrow]

Can you swap the card and monitor to another machine?
Test each.
Does the card require its own power plug (Molex)?
Sure you have power to that plug? )Although that usually generates a visible error on the monitor)

I wouldn't go straight to the mobo until I tested both card and monitor on another machine to rule them out.

[Seth]

Auxillary cpu connector plugged in? Or perhap the psu is dead.

[Leif769]

Can you swap the card and monitor to another machine?
Test each.
Does the card require its own power plug (Molex)?
Sure you have power to that plug? )Although that usually generates a visible error on the monitor)

I wouldn't go straight to the mobo until I tested both card and monitor on another machine to rule them out.

I tried swapping a different monitor to this machine, and hooking up another puter to this monitor... the monitor is A-OK. I can't swap the card to anything else, cause this is my first PCI-E card (and first Intel chip in 10 years.)

The card Does have a secondary power connection, which IS plugged in and was working for the afore-mentioned 24 hours. The PSU is a brand new Antec 650W, and yes, it has 2 of the aux. power leads for video cards.

[Leif769]

Auxillary cpu connector plugged in? Or perhap the psu is dead.

Both the 24 pin and the 4 pin connectors ARE plugged in to the MB. Like I said, I had it running smooth for about 24 hours. Something happened when I started tinkering with the Bios, even though (I don't believe) I did anything radical...

I was more interested in examining the settings, and was trying to use the MB's setting to OC by about 10-20%. That was what the MB had for "AI Overclock"ing settings... this E4300 is supposed to be able to be overclocked to at least +85%, from 1.8GHz to 3.46GHz, easily. So, 10-20% should have only been around 1.98-2.16GHz... nothing radical.

[Seth]

You had it running great, then you fixed what wasn't broke:D. I know I'm not alone on this...stay away from overclocking.

I just hope you didn't damage the cpu by the oc. Have you tried swapping out the video card?

[Leif769]

You had it running great, then you fixed what wasn't broke:D. I know I'm not alone on this...stay away from overclocking.

I just hope you didn't damage the cpu by the oc. Have you tried swapping out the video card?

I have no machine to try swapping out the video card. This is my first PCI-E machine...

This CPU is supposed to be VERY overclockable... by WELL over anything I may have done to it, according to anyone I have read. NO ONE has suggested that OCing by 20% or less, would cause ANY damage to the CPU! In fact, EVERY single article I have read suggests that I should be able to SAFELY OC to at least +85%... I was messing with +20% or LESS...

[mylanta]

To me overclocking is illogical. If something was made to go at a certain speed, and you are going to use it at a greater speed, then why? To save money you will run something you have at a higher speed then it has? I mean it's about money right? Isn't it logical that the risk is it won't run any more if it never was supposed to be at that speed? If it can handle that speed then why didn't the specs say it could? That is why I have never done that, never will and if I want a faster cpu, I will buy one. After all faster ones are for sale or are they not? I have once read of a successful overclocking, but I read every day about blown systems that were overclocked...why would I risk what is a common occurrence by doing something the manufacturer will tell you should not be done because it will blow your system. I respect Intel a lot for not allowing such foolishness on their boards. They never have and never will and if the other makers had any sense, they wouldn't either.

[dbarrow]

You said it was an Asus mobo?
Asus has 2 ROM BIOS chips, one is a fail safe default.
See the manual for BIOS recovery. There are several methods including EZflash.

As you have NO visible screen activity during the POST, it is BIOS, MOBO, or vid card.
You should get 1 beep during start of POST and then BIOS screen. Perform BIOS recovery as per manual or reflash with EZflash . I forget the keys to launch, in the manual.

It is virtually impossible to FRY a cpu these days!
You have thermal throttle and Shutdown built into the CPU. The Asus BIOS will revert to defaults on an unsuccessful OC. (Be sure to UNPLUG power cord for 30 seconds before attempting restart)

All Intel CPUs are speed binned, ie: they all come off the same wafer for the same chip family and are actually the highest in that line. There is no physical difference! If the highest in the line is 3.2 and you have a 2.4 ... you have a 3.2 CPU. Speed binned is where they test them for the highest reliable STOCK speed. Those that show errors are marked and sold as lower speed chips in that family. That does not mean they are not capable of running at the full speed or more as
Intel CPUs are (particularly in the Core Duo family) known to have at least another 30% overhead above top listed speed) and will OC to varying degrees. Some may go 4.1 while others may only go 3.4
There is a breakdown chart somewhere of the number of chips that come off each wafer and the percentages of which earn the higher ratings, the rest are speed binned down and sold as lower speed, cheaper CPUs. The 'duds" in the batch go in the trash.

The Asus Auto Overclocking features are pretty much fool proof. They are default KNOWN settings that will LIKELY work. That does not mean they are 100% positive. Much depends on RAM, voltage settings, CPU and mobo. The right combination may easily go 30% or more just using auto. Other combinations may only go 15%. MANUAL settings may get to the 30% range or above with voltage boosts and different ram timings. This requires extensive experimentation... and expect many failures.
... That is where you search out overclocking forums where people have bumped that mobo and X CPU to higher levels. Look at their settings and experiment accordingly.
It may be as simple as a very slight voltage bump to CPU or ram or loosening the ram timings one notch.

The FAIL SAFE is supposed to revert to default settings if the OC fails. IMPORTANT TO NOTE AGAIN that the board has to be powered down (UNPLUG POWER 30 seconds) for it to reset if it fails to boot.

I had intermittent failure to boot problems with son's P5P800SE when I first put it together. I RMA'd the mobo and they said it was a single bent pin in the CPU socket and sent me a (microscopic photo) (damned if I could see it!), replaced the socket. It was ok after that.
I took the 2.66 up to 3.6 with no problem.
After the board burned up from a short (Thermaltake mounting bracket caused it), the sent me a new replacement mobo. That one will only get to 3.4 with the same ram and CPU. I gave up trying to get back to 3.6.

Is there any point to all this?
Oh yeah! The difference is more than visible... as in quicker than greased lightning.
Are there drawbacks?
Oh yeah! Even with the PCIe clock locked, I found quirks as in the system was running so fast, I was getting buffer overruns on backups as the drives couldn't keep up!
Is there a happy medium?
The machine is now perfectly stable and happy at 3.4.
It is super fast and games extremely well.
We settled on a sweet spot for it and all is good.
What is the point to OC?
YES! You will see Word loading twice as fast ... not that it would make a damned bit of difference for DESKTOP use with average desktop programs and functions.
Now when it comes to gaming, with something as intense as Oblivion, the huge scenes load twice as fast and the frame rates are considerably higher. It does make a very big difference when running a graphics intensive game of this level that requires everything you can throw at it.
That is the primary reason people OC!

[mylanta]

The Asus Auto Overclocking features are pretty much fool proof.

Exactly how fool proof can they be if the pc is Toast?

[Leif769]

Well, got that Gigabyte MB and got her up and running. Only thing I had to do was repair Windows, and activate it... (How I HATE XP's darn activation crap... I miss 2K Pro! Very stable and none of this activation crap every time I change a couple pieces of hardware.)

Bout time to head to my son's football(soccer) practice, and I spent my day off mostly running around, so may have to wait till tomorrow before I can do much play-testing. ;)

This MB was a breeze to install compared to that Asus, and I think it has better features too, barring it being non-SLI capable. :)

[Leif769]

Well, staying up a lot longer than I had counted on, I've had a chance to finally 'play' tonight, and am happy to say that my system seems to be running stable (so far) at 2x 3.15GHz, which is about 75% faster than the original 1.8GHz. :)

I still think those Asus boards may have been OK, but when they locked up and I couldn't see ANYTHING, I couldn't very well tinker/troubleshoot them. I am MUCH, MUCH more impressed with this Gigabyte board.

I've had several Asus boards in the past and been very happy with them, but they all seemed to have more features than the P5N-SLI...

[Seth]

...and you've changed your sig to match. Good job Leif.

Ya know, I can't stand todays video games. I find they are unoriginal and much to complex.

I miss the arcade games of the 80's, and the games for the C64.

Hell...I just miss the 80's period:D. I was 16, and the most beautiful girl leaned over to kiss me. Damn, that was even more fun than Space Invaders...or was it?

[Guest110]

...and you've changed your sig to match. Good job Leif.

Ya know, I can't stand todays video games. I find they are unoriginal and much to complex.

I miss the arcade games of the 80's, and the games for the C64.

Hell...I just miss the 80's period:D. I was 16, and the most beautiful girl leaned over to kiss me. Damn, that was even more fun than Space Invaders...or was it?


You old romantic :bounce:

[mylanta]

All board makers go through cycles. A few years ago Gigabyte was the best then found the toilet and Asus took over. Last year or so every Asus board I have touched was a nightmare so I am off them again.