03/14/07 Wed Nite KH Computer Help Desk Chatroom Summary

[mommalina]

03/14/07 Wed Nite KH Computer Help Desk Chatroom Summary

Wow! What a great chatroom session we had last night! We placed 3d in
computer rooms most of the time and finally closed at about 12:40 AM, with
some interesting visitors still hanging in there. Sorry about that! Hope they
will join us again next week.



WHO WAS THERE

KH MEMBERS - Lina, Doug, Photolady, Rich, Lawrence, Skip Cox (nice to
see you back!), Rob (kern), Dan, Al, N3, Fred, X86echo (great voice) --
he joined our forum during his visit to the chatroom!
:cheer2:

VISITORS WHO CHIMED IN - davenext_3 (he whizzed past, posting a web
site I would not dare access!), our young whiz myhdissata (don't know if we
should watch our language or visa versa .. ;) ), armadillo115nc (faithful
visitor but hasn't joined), redlion1957, The malteser, stubby_28, eddie_BK,
OAKLAND_SENCOHAX3R, alvbow, scientificmind1, HankFive (he
referred cwet to our KH forum while I took a break!), tallblackmale93_1,
nyc_b1tch, longhead1129, cwet, joanee, PnPonboard, chef_boyardee_nyc



REMINDER
Please make sure two of you are not using the same font (size, color) in
the chatroom. Different fonts make it easier to follow and understand the
text conversations during the session and later when I compile this
summary. Thanks!



COMPUTER DISCUSSIONS

MS POWERPOINT VIEWER
I learned last night I was unsuccessfully trying to install a four-year-old
version of PPV! The latest version is:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=048DC840-14E1-467D-8DCA-19D2A8FD7485&displaylang=en
Thanks, Rob!

OPEN OFFICE
Some use this as a free substitute for MS Office and find it quite adequate
and suitable for their needs. Skip thinks it gives nearly seamless integration
with any MS office file. http://www.openoffice.org/

VESSER (MALWARE)
Lawrence: Vesser is a program that operates through the Soulseek PtoP
program and also through previous viral infections; it is a nasty problem.

More here: http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/vesser.shtml

CARD READER INSTALL PROBLEM
Visitor alvbow's: just got a card reader that only gives info on installing it
with the USB port, though it has a lead that could be plugged right to the
mother. It is an internal on like a floppy. Any ideas?

Photolady tried to help: You can connect the card reader inside your
motherboard if you have USB pinouts on your motherboard. If you tell us
which motherboard we can help better. Most newer motherboards have
these connections. Ok, we can get the actual motherboard numbers we need
if you do this.

alvbow left before Photolady could tell him: make sure you have an extra
PCI slot too...and before Lawrence could add: A PCI add-in card with
extra USB sockets is required, some of these cards not only have a series
of available sockets on the rear but also have a set of sockets that are
available on the card for internal use. Some also have pinouts on them for
internal connection. It needs careful selection when you buy one.

NORTON
Different strokes for different folks. Many don't like Norton. N3, the
joker, asked if I remembered Ed Norton (of the Honeymooners; he
portrayed a character that worked in a sewer).

PROGRAM STEALTHING A PORT
Doug: Stealth NOT as important as CLOSED. Don't get excited at visible
ports so long as they are closed. Gibson test is ok, but certain ports will be
monitored by XP functions. If firewall blocks access to port, you are
secure. More open outbound ports that respond to pings are vulnerable.
ICMP pings are not a threat. You can be "pingable" but not open.

SOFTWARE WHICH ALLOWS RECORDING ANY STREAMING
AUDIO ONLINE
scientificmind1 wanted to know. Suggestions:
Total Recorder, http://www.highcriteria.com/
Audacity, http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ (better in Linux)
Gold Wave, http://www.goldwave.com/
Hitrecorder, http://www.hitrecorder.com/frameset.htm (music off
internet radio)

REPLACING ONBOARD VIDEO CARD
tallblackmale93_ 1 asked if he could buy a video card and fix this without
buying a new motherboard? Lawrence said normally he could. SkipCox
suggested that usually an add-in card will fix that problem...unless the
motherboard is toast.

VISTA
Dan's son got a new notebook in February - with Vista. He said it will be
the LAST Windows notebook OR computer he will ever buy! Next one will
either be Linux OR Apple.

A few visitors expressed dislike for Vista. One just built a box with XP; he
had a laptop with Vista.

Al's new rationale for staying with antiquated W98-- "It's better than
Vista." But Rich has tamed and likes Vista. So does Photolady.

LINUX
Much discussion about Linux, but I'm lost. I just may be forced to install
Linux and get acquainted with it just to know what you all are talking about!
In the meantime, make sure you visit with us in the chatroom each week
for the latest on Linux! Many visitors are delighted with Linux.



NON-COMPUTER TOPICS DISCUSSED

DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME
Not in Australia! ....EDIT: It is only in the more northern states in
Australia, Queensland being the main one, that don't use daylight saving.
(Thanks for clarifying that, Lawrence!)

GETTING FIRED
Best thing that happened to some. But you can beat them to the punch by
quitting (Doug: Over 50 = don't put up with BS!).

I'VE FALLEN AND I CAN'T GET UP!
Alert systems available for disabled and/or aged. $15 to $35 a month
depending on type of service, free for the poor some states, or sometimes
covered by insurance.

Some systems have a call center that comes over the "necklace" speaker;
and if there is no response, they bring up your medical history and
designate which agency / ambulance / rescue to send.

Rich has installed some alert systems, and gave us some feedback about
sweet, cooperative, grateful recipients of the service and some rude, nasty,
know-it-all caretakers.

MEXICAN HEALTHCARE .. ;)
If you recall, last week we reported that if you have a car accident in
Australia, yes, an ambulance will take you to a hospital emergency room.
N3 quipped that in the U.S., they fix the car first!

Last night Skip added: In Mexico, they fix the car at the intersection ....
you can drive yourself to the stinkin' hospital!



This summary is just a tease--we covered a lot more tech information and
had a few more laughs.

Until next week, take care, ciao .. :grouphug:

Lina

[qldit]

Good Morning Momma, excellent coverage of a really pleasant entertaining educative session.
By the way it is only in the more northern states here in Austalia, Queensland being the main one that doesn't use daylight saving.
When it was trialled some years ago the problem was kind of like the sun not rising until 0700 hrs in the northern areas, so early morning work and stuff was in darkness.
In that Queensland is not using DST it places a penalty of at least two hours on business dealings with the southern states.
Daylight saving really is only useful further away from the equatorial areas.

It was a pleasure to meet all the new people yesterday, certainly a broad spectrum of interests.
I think the couple without mics, will certainly have them before the next session.

Once again I found myhdissata to be right up there with her knowledge, she is definitely something else! I suspect her parents may be Australian!!!

My compliments, Cheers, Lawrence.

[mylanta]

Larry,
She is a he!!!!

[qldit]

Good Morning Rich, are you quite sure of that, I thought I heard her/him say girl!
Cheers, Lawrence.

[mommalina]

By the way it is only in the more northern states here in Austalia, Queensland being the main one that doesn't use daylight saving.
When it was trialled some years ago the problem was kind of like the sun not rising until 0700 hrs in the northern areas, so early morning work and stuff was in darkness.
In that Queensland is not using DST it places a penalty of at least two hours on business dealings with the southern states.
Daylight saving really is only useful further away from the equatorial areas.

Lawrence, I edited that in the summary. Thanks. Interesting!

It was a pleasure to meet all the new people yesterday, certainly a broad spectrum of interests.
I think the couple without mics, will certainly have them before the next session.

Yes, we sure had a lot of visitors in addition to quite a few members. And a
lot of interest in Linux, I thought.

Once again I found myhdissata to be right up there with her knowledge, she is definitely something else! I suspect her parents may be Australian!!!


Lawrence, sorry to disappoint you, but mhdissata maintains he is male!
His young voice can be misleading. So quit the flirting!!!!! .. ;)

From the text box:
myhdissata: again i am a guy

You probably did not notice that in the text box because he, Skip, Stubby,
and Dan were using the identical font! .. :nono:

BTW, I find it difficult to understand mhdissata at times. He speaks
rapidly, a disadvantage for slow-paced seniors and/or the nontech-oriented!

I forgot to check my handwritten notes when compiling the summary. I'm
afraid to look--probably left out the more important things. Will check
when I have some time (have to babysit with sick grandchild tomorrow).

Ciao,

Lina

[photolady]

She's a he? My, as with Lawrence, I too thought he was a she. Must be his age and his voice has not acquired that deep male voice known to be after puberty. eh?

Nice summary Lina. ;)

[qldit]

Good Afternoon All, well it seems I am mistaken, my apologies myhdissata, it seems I will have to flirt with someone else!!!!

I missed the post "again I am a guy"! I must use a monitor that is not out of focus!!

Vivienne is indiposed, so that leaves you Momma or Photolady, prepare to be inundated!!! LOL!!

Of course Rich could be a good target for an occasional flirt also!! LOL!!

And yes, I feel linux interest will snowball as more people try it and realise they don't require to have all that malware protection with it's overheads and repeatedly scan.

It is a shame BlackMirror doesn't know how to operate an alarm clock, I expect that may be a little difficult, but a proper multitasking person should be able to sleep and participate in the session as well!! LOL!!

There were a couple of nebies trying Linux, it will be interesting to see how they went, but PL is the other camp. (probably a millionaire in secret!!!)

Cheers, Looking forward to your next wednesday evening session!

Lawrence.

[compusimple]

Hi Lina
Many thanks for summary. In Fla now and willmiss next week as well.
Can't sign in cause it is dialup and only 1 phone line.

regards

Elliott

[mommalina]

Elliot (compusimple) could not get to our last chatroom session (he travels).
So for Elliot and others who may be interested, here are a few tidbits I
failed to include in my summary of our 03/14/07 chatroom session
(missed checking part of my handwritten notes):


ACRONIS
Fred and Rich had a long discussion about Acronis backups. Check this
post, and do a search for other recent Acronis posts on the forum:

Acronis Backup Question
http://www.kickenhardware.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6304


VISTA
Was released too soon? There's no better system than XP.


LINUX
X86 likes Linux more than Vista, has Linux on wireless. But someone
else found Linux difficult to operate, can't stay on with wireless.
Puppy Linux has amazing speed, can download it from a CD.


FREE AV AND SPYWARE PROTECTION
Lawrence thinks Avira is the best free AV around and puts
that and Spybot on his clients' machines.


Lina .. :grouphug:

[Terry Hanushek]

Lina

Al's new rationale for staying with antiquated W98-- "It's better than Vista."
AGREE

BTW In addition to Australia (or at least Queensland), Daylight Saving Time is not on my Win98 machines (yet). :)

Terry

[mylanta]

Al's new rationale for staying with antiquated W98-- "It's better than
Vista." But Rich has tamed and likes Vista. So does Photolady.

Al thank you thank you for the comic relief, I almost needed oxygen when I read this!

Al for goodness sake admit you are so tight your thoughts squeek!!!!
Oh and for the record, my service no longer works on Windows 98 or Me. I came to the conclusion those left on it are either so clueless they deserve what happens to their OS, or they are so cheap, I could never collect for the extra amount of time it takes to do anything that I would have to bill for anyway.
They either buy XP from me or anywhere, or find another "rent-a-tech".

[qldit]

Good Morning Terry, yes I feel the best thing about daylight saving is not having it!!! LOL!!

And yes, sticking with W98 may pay dividends, I understand the viral creation industry is really concentrating on Vista now!
It will be interesting to see what happens.
It appears there is a larger adversarial industry developing against MS products for whatever reasons.
Some of my technical advisory friends are quite worried, and tending to suggest Linux programs more often in the industry, especially with large networks.

The overheads have become ridiculous.

Cheers, Lawrence.

[LOOP]

Lawrence, In my opinion, as Linux gains in popularity it too will succumb to the malware etc that windows is now defending itself from.

[Tortanick]

There are many reasons why Linux will always be more secure than Windows LOOP.


Linux was designed from the start as a true multi-user system, it's descended from UNIX that often ran entire companies with hundreds of keyboards and screens attached to one large computer, as such when Linux was born it had the design to handle multiple users at that level. Windows started from a single user OS and never really got it right. For malware this means that unlike windows there really is no reason to be a admin user all the time, and that it is very hard for a normal user to infect anything other than his personal files.
Linux has a culture of downloading software from large, and highly trustworthy repositories, Widnows has a culture of downloading software from the internet at large.
The de-facto Windows browser is Internet Explorer. The de-facto Linux browser is iceweasel. You do the maths.
For windows you have about five versions on the desktop: 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista. On Linux you have: Debian, Gentoo, Slackware, Puppy, DammSmall, Ubuntu, MEPIS, Freespire, Linspire, Fedora, Suse, Mandrivia, PCLinuxOS, and a few hundred more. Viruses love a monoculture.
the default windows firewall is very basic, designed to protect a desktop computer from the internet. The default Linux firewall has a following in dedicated gateway firewalls for massive corporations, and includes such nice features as per network interface rules. or allowing connections only to/from certain MAC addresses.
In windows programs like realplayer, or adobe reader, often take large liberties, In linux they'll be lynch mobbed if they try.


That said Linus Torvalds has a theory that when an Operating System becomes popular with the massess things like backwards compatibility become more important, while good technical decisions become less important. I'd probobly add that a culture that allows abuses of power like realplayer's junk-filled install will grow. As a result the OS stagnates and a new neich OS appears with a geek only audience that focuses on the technical side, becomes vastly superior to the old one, and takes over, repeating the cycle. I'm inclined to believe this, if for no other reason that Torvalds has been proven right so often, but I doub't Linux will ever sink to the level of windows.

[qldit]

Good Evening All, yes loop, tortanick is well versed in most of the reasons why Linux has significantly less possibility of malware effect, basically the file system alone has enormously greater integrity, and although one account may be adversely affected there is not much probability of problem spread.
This is part of the reason that Linux is considered as a system for "geeks", the overall system is much more complex with it's various dependencies and structure.

Basically a live Linux system that runs in Ramdrive is virtually bulletproof if it runs from a closed CD, because even in the possibility that some malware were to enter the system the entire thing is gone when the system is shut down.
In the case of a keylogger kind of situation it is nearly impossible for such a thing to enter or have any effect.

This is part of the reason that I feel the future of computing is destined to involve a ramdrive linux system rather than using a conventional hard drive.

Puppy Linux is a classic example of such a system but there are others.

Of course things may change, but good engineering is designing something that can operate on it's own without need for massive protection.
Linux meets this critereon.

I suggest this will be the way of the future, which is already beginning to happen in so many cases.

I stronly suggest that everyone get some Linux experience.

Cheers, Lawrence.

[mylanta]

For windows you have about five versions on the desktop: 98, ME, 2000, XP, Vista. On Linux you have: Debian, Gentoo, Slackware, Puppy, DammSmall, Ubuntu, MEPIS, Freespire, Linspire, Fedora, Suse, Mandrivia, PCLinuxOS, and a few hundred more.


Yes and this is also the reason for obscurity. There isn't one of these or any of 5 more that will run my Canon printer or any of my HP Laser printers, or any wireless internet adapter in my desk drawer (and I have about 10). How can any OS hit prime time with 2 word processors, no wireless adapters, 10 printers???
The problem is free. The same problem free and open source has always had. It has little or no funding and you show me how you will develop any software that is meaningful on a "shoestring"! Why do you think all the free programs are either incomplete, or spyware?

[Tortanick]

Mylanta, they all use the same software for talking to printers, so if you're printer isn't supported by Linux it is unlikely to matter witch Linux distro you use. Use the OpenPrinting database (http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi) to find one that works.

Wireless is a problem, but its tiny compared to some windows issues, like viruses. You can allways get round it with a wireless to ethernet adapter (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=154416) Linux Ethernet support is very good.

And seriously, do you really think that all the free programs are bad or spyware? Because I'm running Linux and I paid £0 for any software and it runs brilliantly, it can do anything Windows can except play most games, and its on a Pentium 3.

[mylanta]

Thanks T that printer db may be a home run!
As for Linux ethernet support, well most of them have also not recognized Realtek onboard ethernet either (and that is scary as they are the # 1 maker of onboard ethernet)...I got around that with Intel pci ethernet cards.

[Pi rules]

Thanks for the summary (can't believe I missed the pi day (3/14) chatroom, but had to close at work and got home late).

I also like Vista, but still have the beta. I'm hoping to buy either Ultimate or Home Premium soon.

Thanks for the printer database, Tortanick.

[qldit]

Good Afternoon All, this Linux question has a few angles that are quite obscure.

Generally university courses are structured for modern systems, interestingly many universities have generated there own operating systems for use during their courses, these are generally based on Linux Systems.

I understand there is movement away from uniform MS structured courses into other systems which may have further development downstream.

I do feel that constant revisions in operating and file system technology will have bearing on future technical student teachings.
I do feel that the basis might be unix based systems as a core and MS systems as differences will be the methodology.

It is quite remarkable with Linux systems that very rarely have advertising are creeping into the technical use areas, especially for mission critical systems.

Another interesting area of technical useage is international collabloration in developing the various Linux Systems, most information is freely exchanged.
I find this aspect very exciting, almost as if it were a competition to see who can introduce the best ideas without direct fiscal reward, but naturally the notoriety of major successful developers equates and makes them much sought after by industry.

If we consider an operating system as a means of communication, it seems quite strange to see that it would be heavilly copyrighted, logically using this concept, a universal system is the only ultimate answer to real progress.
As can easily be seen this will be either a free or inexpensive universal system.

If we accept that pirated operating systems were simply a means to an end, then that will reduce as Linux or alternative systems become more entrenched.

I do feel that the MS system pricing will accellerate this move.

It certainly is interesting observing large organisations systems strategies at this time.

Cheers, Lawrence.