The Inkjet Investigation

[dbarrow]

http://www.trustedreviews.com/printers/review/2007/04/21/The-Inkjet-Investigation/p1

The single biggest complaint that customers have against manufacturers of ink-jet printers and all-in-ones is the cost of consumables. While hardware prices continue to drop, the costs of ink and paper stay pretty much the same and, each year, can well add up to a good proportion of the purchase price of a machine.

This is why third-party ink and paper has proved so popular. At a fraction of the price of manufacturer's own products, you can buy look-alike consumables which appear to do exactly the same job as the originals. But there's a nagging doubt in the back of the mind that the quality of the resulting prints won't be up to the original manufacturers’ standard – a doubt which is played upon by all the main printer makers. ...

[mylanta]

At a fraction of the price of manufacturer's own products, you can buy look-alike consumables which appear to do exactly the same job as the originals.

What a joke. I have never seen generics or refillables look anything like the originals. Then on top of that they bleed, gum up the jets and do all kinds of irreparable damage to the printer.




But there's a nagging doubt in the back of the mind that the quality of the resulting prints won't be up to the original manufacturers’ standard – a doubt which is played upon by all the main printer makers


Effortless effort in my case, I have seen what the "compatibles" can do and how easily they make the whole printer incompatible with the world.

[jflan]

There are generic inks now, that are actually preferred by the photo junkies over OEM inks.

I've seen the comparisons and I can't tell the difference.
Just started refilling with one of the highly regarded generics and I am amazed at how easy it was.

Haven't done any photos yet, but so far the performance seem to be the same as OEM. Cost was somewhere around 15% of retail OEM.

No doubt, there are cheap generics around, especially when you see that the ink is claimed to be "all-purpose" or "universal". That's a tip off.
Probably the biggest cause of clogged printhead nozzles is printer inactivity and then it's a toss-up between cheap ink refills and the new OEM "waterproof" or "archival" inks.

[writeco]

I have tried the discount inks and found that they run out far quicker than the manufacturer-supplied inks. This has happened often enough that I believe in the axiom that you get what you pay for and no longer buy them.

[PeteF]

There are generic inks now, that are actually preferred by the photo junkies over OEM inks.

I've seen the comparisons and I can't tell the difference.
Just started refilling with one of the highly regarded generics and I am amazed at how easy it was.



jflan,
I recently started experimenting with generics. I purchased the
remanufactured cartridges to replace the 78 tri-color and the 45 black
cartridges for my HP printer. For this topic, I think we need specify which
vendor or brand we are dealing with because results could be so different
from vendor to vendor or brand to brand. Even the type of inkjet printer
could have different results.

I had good luck so far with Insell for remanufactured cartridges, saving
about $10 per cartridge. I also purchased the tri-color refill kit, but the jury
is still out on that one until I can do more testing. I must add, that I don't
print photos very often. Mainly I print color webpages and my color business
cards so I'm not going to be too critical on color quality. For my purposes
it's more about whether it works well enough without damaging the printer.

Below are the products I'm dealing with..
http://inksell.com/hpdj932c.html

---pete---

[kelly]

Selling ink is one of the things I do. My customers have been happy with the non-OEM hp cartridges I've sold them. I hear that they last longer than HP's cartridges. So it depends on the brand you're buying.

I still don't recommend non-Epson ink for Epson printers. I've heard of people having to trash their printer after using generic cartridges in Epsons; others don't seem to have that kind of problem.

[mylanta]

I have never had any luck with them, of course up until recently I had only Epson printers. Prior to that I used Lexmarks which are also no good.
I just have had every printer I have ever put them in either not print at all, print blurry and smear, or jam up the print heads. The difference in color was obvious to a blind man, and frankly the risks just are not worth it.
I have a Brother fax that uses inkjet cartridges and it has always bothered me that I have yet to print anything in color, and yet they run out every few months so I was recommended to ABC ink and spent $2.50 for replacement cartridges instead of $12. I don't really care that it now prints blue faxes instead of black, but that is my normal experience with "compatibles" until it jams up all together and I buy a new printer.

[PeteF]

Selling ink is one of the things I do. My customers have been happy with the non-OEM hp cartridges I've sold them. I hear that they last longer than HP's cartridges. So it depends on the brand you're buying.

I still don't recommend non-Epson ink for Epson printers. I've heard of people having to trash their printer after using generic cartridges in Epsons; others don't seem to have that kind of problem.

Kelly, do you think the success has to do with the type of printer,
where the kind such as HP that has the print head built into the
cartridge, is more likely to work with generics? This, as opposed
to the plain ink cartridges that feed a print head built into the
printer.

---pete---

[mommalina]

MODS: Please delete any inappropriate part of this post. I just want
to share my good experience with a company--maybe this should be
in the Promotions forum?

Lina: Very good post - I see nothing inappropriate in it. Terry

Selling ink is one of the things I do. My customers have been happy with the non-OEM hp cartridges I've sold them. I hear that they last longer than HP's cartridges. So it depends on the brand you're buying.

I still don't recommend non-Epson ink for Epson printers. I've heard of people having to trash their printer after using generic cartridges in Epsons; others don't seem to have that kind of problem.

Tony, I wonder if sometimes it's the cheap printers at fault rather than the
cartridges. Eight years ago, I paid $240+ for my Epson 740, expensive
today for a printer. But that was probably before the manufacturers began
to build them with cheap materials.

I've had good luck with generic black and color cartridges for my
8-year-old Epson 740. But I don't print much and suspect the cartridges
do not dry out prematurely because I make sure I print something at least
once a week and keep the printer covered ( to protect from low humidity
in the winter heating season and air-conditioning in the summer).

I bought 6 black and 3 color cartridges for $31.47 (free shipping for orders
over $30) from www.acsmsupplies.com (http://www.acsmsupplies.com) in January 2004. Still have 1 color
and 2 black I haven't installed/used.

I have no quarrel with the quality of the printing--but I'm not running a
business.

BTW, I just checked the web site. They are now called InjectRus, and I
noticed this:

Epson printer manufacturers have sued all of the generic inkjet
manufacturers for patent infringement and won. All the generic
manufacturers have had to redesign their molds. This will mean an
increase in price to pay for the changes. The cost will be an increase of
approximately $4 per cartridge. We have stocked up to keep our prices low
for as long as possible. The increase may take affect in April. This will
affect all ink buyers everywhere.
DON'T WAIT, STOCK UP NOW!!

Called them. They still have a good bit in stock. Prices went down since
2004. To get free shipping ($30), I ordered 9 black and 3 color cartridges.
Total cost: $38.88. Don't think I can lose on that! They should outlast me
and my printer! .. :)

CAUTION: You may not have the same luck I've had with these generic
cartridges, especially if you have a newer, cheap printer.... and if you want
optimal color results (although I'm satisfied).


Lina

[jflan]

Yes mommalina, the Epsons of that era were/are great printers.
I had a Stylus Color 600, made in Japan.
You could "hear" the quality engineering as it powered up :)
It's still working somewhere in NJ, sold it on eBay.

Anyway, for me to buy genuine Epson inks for that machine was cost prohibitive.
I refused to do it.
My successful solution over several years was to buy new generic cartridges from an e-tailer called Databazaar .
They offer free shipping with no minimum purchase :)
And yes, if you're using SiteAdvisor it will go yellow, I think because you will get an email once a month from them with a coupon or some other deal.

Something else that I found Databazaar useful for is fax film, if you're still using that technology.
For the co. fax, I was able to buy a 2-pack for $8 less than one would cost at my local bricks-and-mortar. The fax film was a generic, made in Japan.

Epson uses peizoelectric technology for ink dispersement and inks have to be specific to this. Using the wrong ink in an Epson can be fatal to the machine.
I say fatal because Epson printheads are not intended to be user-serviceable.
Partial machine disassembly is required to reach them, so when an Epson gets a badly clogged printhead the service call can be more than the printer is worth.

My 600 suffered a clogged printhead once, due to inactivity. I was able to extract the printhead and recover it. Having the service manual was a big help.

So I would say with Epsons, use OEM or proven generic inks.
I agree with mommalina that printing at least one full-color page a week will help keep those inkjet nozzles clear.

Here's a description of the two prevalent inkjet technologies in use today (and lots more inkjet info):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkjet_printer#Thermal_Ink_Jet

[mommalina]

My successful solution over several years was to buy new generic cartridges from an e-tailer called Databazaar .
They offer free shipping with no minimum purchase :)

jflan, thanks for mentioning Databazaar. They would be great to order
from if I ever need only one color cartridge (no shipping minimum). I
made out better with InjectRus for the larger quantity (9 black, 3 color)
I ordered....$38.88 as opposed to $51.00. :D


Lina

[kelly]

My experience with an Epson 740 is different. It stopped working shortly after I started using generic ink. So in this case, I believe it was the ink that caused the problem.

My customers with HP printers have good experiences with generics and with refilling. One guy refills his ink 10 times and then buys a new cartridge.

On the generics I've sold for HP - they just come with more ink than the OEMs. That's why they last longer.

[jflan]

jflan, thanks for mentioning Databazaar. They would be great to order
from if I ever need only one color cartridge (no shipping minimum). I
made out better with InjectRus for the larger quantity (9 black, 3 color)
I ordered....$38.88 as opposed to $51.00. :D


Lina

Wow! That's a great deal and if they work reliably...what the hey!

[mylanta]

I'm sorry, I can't help but think this whole discussion involves laziness, the same laziness that has all of you buying everything in Staples or Best Buy, the furthest thing I know of from discount buying. Then add to it burying heads in the sand...reminds me of my dad who was told by a doctor he had to use margarine and not butter and a gourmet restaurant owner then swore that he could not tell the difference between butter and margarine, and I knew it was a lie of submission...no generic or refilled ink cartridge product ever looks anything like a print made with an oem cartridge. They are substandard but you can avoid seeing that if you like.
Why not do as I do and find ways to buy the oem cartridges you all don't want to pay list prices for at your "discount brick and mortar stores" for almost the same price as the compatibles, and you will also find your printers will live longer!

[casey]

I have an Epson 875DC for years and a newer HP 3820 which both use generic brands from Atlas Computers which is only about 5 miles from here. I have friends and relatives that all use their Generics and seem satisfied, One is using a couple year old Epson C86 and the others assorted brands. I'm not sure they are equal to the brand name cartridges but they surely are good enough for what I use the printer for. My family has been using this company for years...

[Seth]

You guys are giving Rich an aneurysm:D.

[mylanta]

Nah better have tried...

[PeteF]

Everyone,
The article at the link below is very long, but you should find
the few excerpts listed below to be relavant to our topic of
third-party (generic) ink cartidges and refiller kits.

It helps if you understand the inkjet printer technology.

---pete---


Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inkjet_printer#Thermal_Ink_Jet


Excerpt..

Thermal Ink Jet

Most consumer ink jet printers (Lexmark, Hewlett-Packard, Canon) work by having a print cartridge with a series of tiny electrically heated chambers constructed by photolithography. To produce an image, the printer runs a pulse of current through the heating elements. A steam explosion in the chamber forms a bubble, which propels a droplet of ink onto the paper (hence Canon's tradename for its inkjets, Bubblejet). The ink's surface tension as well as the condensing and thus contraction of the vapour-bubble, pulls another charge of ink into the chamber through a narrow channel attached to an ink reservoir.

The ink used is usually water-soluble pigment or dye-based but the print head is produced usually at less cost than other ink jet technologies.


Excerpt..

Piezoelectric Ink Jet

All Epson printers and most commercial and industrial ink jet printers use a piezoelectric material in an ink-filled chamber behind each nozzle instead of a heating element. When a voltage is applied, the crystal changes shape or size, which generates a pressure pulse in the fluid forcing a droplet of ink from the nozzle. This is essentially the same mechanism as the thermal inkjet but generates the pressure pulse using a different physical principle. Piezoelectric ink jet allows a wider variety of inks than thermal or continuous ink jet but is more expensive.


Excerpt..

Small inkjet printers as being used in offices or at home, all use aqueous inks based on a mixture of water, glycol and some dyes or pigments. These inks are inexpensive to manufacture, but are difficult to control on the surface of media and therefore often require specially coated media. Aqueous inks are mainly being used in printers with disposable, so-called thermal, inkjet heads, as these heads require water in order to perform.


Excerpt..

The type of ink used in the printer can affect how quickly the printhead nozzles become clogged. While the official brand of ink is highly engineered to match the printer mechanism, generic inks cannot exactly match the composition of the official brand since the actual ink composition is a trade secret. Generic ink brands may alternately be too volatile to keep the printhead moist during storage, or may be too thick and jellied leading to frequent printhead channel clogging.

Disadvantages

Inkjet printers show a number of disadvantages:

1. Clogging of the print head, as a result of the printer
not being used for a period

2. High cost of the ink, sometimes equivalent
(in cost/volume terms) to that of first-growth claret

3. "Intelligent" ink cartridges, containing a microchip
that tells the printer the cartridge is empty even when
the user can see that ink remains

4. Limited color gamut

5. Limited capacity of ink cartridges, requiring
frequent replacement

6. Limited lifetime of the print, i.e. until visible
fading or change in color balance

7. Multiple-ink cartridges, e.g. holding the C, M and Y inks,
which must be replaced as a whole even when only one color
is exhausted.

8. More expensive paper required for inkjet printers than for
laser printers: see Inkjet paper. Double-sided printing is
not usually practical with inkjet printers.

Item 1 appears to be inherent in the design of print heads, because of their very fine ink channels.

Items 2 and 3 have been addressed by third-party ink suppliers, although printer manufacturers do not encourage the use of third-party inks. Some cartridges can be refilled as shown above. Third-party ink cartridges have chips that always read "full", but may contain less ink than the manufacturer's own cartridges and therefore yield no cost saving.[1] Independent testing[2] shows that with these inks the lifetime of the print may be considerably shorter.

-end-

[PeteF]

Ok, after reading the full article and all the posts of this thread, it seems to
me that it makes best sense to use generic inkjet cartridges or refill kits only
for the type of printer that uses a cartridge that has the print head built
into the cartridge. However, you should be careful about the brand you
choose for a generic cartridge because some may actually refill with less
ink than the original had, negating any cost savings.

For me, I always use up the BLUE ink first on my HP tri-color Inkjet
cartridge which leaves a perfectly good cartridge useless becasue
there is still plenty of RED and YELLOW ink remaining. If I can refill
the blue tank and get more use out of that cartridge, then it makes
sense to do so. I rarely print photos so no big concern for color
quality.

---pete---

[jflan]

Thanks Pete...

All this OEM, re-fill, re-man talk is small change to folks who really do some printing.
Here's what the photo gurus are up to :
http://www.shutterbug.net/equipmentreviews/paper_ink/0706output/

[hetzer]

Hello there

I thought maybe it would be a good idea to let you guys know that I have been buying my OEM ink for my printers at Sam's Wholesale Club for years.
I find that I am getting two ink cartridges for the same price that I would get one at Wal-mart or an Office Supply shop. and I have to agree with Rich about the generic inkjet cartridges, I lost a great Epson printer because a friend thought he would save a buck are two when he used my printer on a project. Just my two cents....

Hetzer

[mylanta]

Well I guess all some of the posts here prove is that you can find a force of agreement to almost anything on the internet. Just as Hetzer writes and I have experienced more than once, the product is nothing like the original, and sooner or later it will kill your printer too.

[casey]

Coming up the highway by my house I saw where they were building a new building. Today it either opened up or they just put the sign out. I never heard of the place but it doesn't seem like it's a new operation. It's called
InkStop ....


Reading, Pennsylvania

3225 North 5th Street, Unit B
Reading, Pennsylvania 19605
Phone:610.939.8990
Hours: Mon-Fri 9am to 8pm, Sat 9am to 6pm,
Sun 10am to 5pm
Next to Starbuck's
Map It! (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&addtohistory=&address=3225%20N%205th%20Street%20Hwy&city=Reading&state=PA&zipcode=19605%2d2451&country=US&geodiff=1)

[jflan]

LOL !
They really should rethink that name.
Either that or Reading has a bit of constipation in its near future :)

[casey]

They really should rethink that name.
Either that or Reading has a bit of constipation in its near future :)


Well I really don't think Reading would be the only place
Stores using the name InkStop
Store LocationsVisit Our Retail Stores!
Ohio ( 10 )
Michigan ( 7 )
Missouri ( 1 )
New Jersey ( 3 )
Pennsylvania ( 6 )
Delaware ( 1 )
Kansas ( 3 )
Virginia ( 5)
Washington D.C. (1)

[Seth]

LOL !
They really should rethink that name.

Heh heh heh

The irony is brilliant.

How about doing away with inkjet and getting a laser printer?

[jflan]

Yep, entry-level lasers are within reach of the average user/consumer now.
However, the marketeers are good at convincing the public that they need a photo-quality printer. I think that will keep inkjets around for a while.

The consumers that realize that they actually do text and not photo will jump on the laser bandwagon I would think.

Then there's this thing which some say has the potential to turn things upside-down:
http://www.texyt.com/silverbrook+memjet+technology+available+desktop+ph oto+wideformat+hp+edgeline+comparison
Page-wide nozzle array and blazing fast.
I saw somewhere HP bought rights to use the technology.
It was in the local fishwrapper, I think.

The HP printer design team is here in Vancouver...sure be interesting to have a look around in there :)
Pre-NAFTA, HP manufactured printers here also.

[Seth]

Joe,

If there is any industry that milks everything for what it's worth, then it's the computer industry.

From mechanical devices to store data, to processors that generate more heat than performance, it's all about sucking the end user dry, despite the knowledgeable screaming, "There is a better way to do it".

[jflan]

Joe,

If there is any industry that milks everything for what it's worth, then it's the computer industry.

From mechanical devices to store data, to processors that generate more heat than performance, it's all about sucking the ignorant dry, despite the knowledgeable screaming, "There is a better way to do it".

Yeah, I think my biggest thrill with this inktank refill business, other than it's been successful for me, is that I enjoy beating the system.
I've heard it called the Gillette Principle, where in my father's day a man would buy a finely crafted razor blade holder, probably a bit over cost.
Then he was condemned to a lifetime of purchasing razor blade refills.

I wonder how many single-edge razors the previous generation had to buy during their lifetimes ? Probably only when it was lost or misplaced.

Kodak is trying to break into the inkjet market with less expensive inks.
Their printers are more expensive, but maybe those hardware prices reflect reality and not the Gillette Principle. We'll see how they do.

A friend of mine has a basic HP Photosmart 7260. It takes a #56 Black and a #57 (or #58) Tri-color. It costs $52USD to re-ink the thing with OEM ink !
It's obscene and people are growing weary of it.

[PeteF]

Yeah, I think my biggest thrill with this inktank refill business, other than it's been successful for me, is that I enjoy beating the system.


jflan, you make a good point. I've always heeded the warnings and gone with
OEM cartridges knowing that I'm being over charged for something as simple
as ink. So there is a strong motivation to find an alternative way to beat
them at their own game. I think with a little research and some persistance,
it can be done. Especially when we have a forums like this where we can
compare notes and experiences.

Thanks for sharing!

---pete---

[kern]

fwiw, I've had good results with generic cartridges, for my Epson C60, from www.printpal.com

[hetzer]

Hello there,

I am beginning to think that you lead a horse to water but you can’t make it use the right ink. I am going to start checking around for the best deal on OEM ink and try to let you guys know about it. Why kill a printer before it time by using generic inkjet cartridges, its madness I tell you.:der:

Hetzer

[kern]

Hello there,

I am beginning to think that you lead a horse to water but you can’t make it use the right ink. I am going to start checking around for the best deal on OEM ink and try to let you guys know about it. Why kill a printer before it time by using generic inkjet cartridges, its madness I tell you.

Hetzer

I've had my C60 since '01, and was using OEM's up until mid '02 when I switched to Printpal generics. I see very little if any difference in image quality from OEM. That said, most of my printing is text docs, some color and/or with images, so basically light duty printing.
Whether generics are killing the C60, I dont know, but its still chugging along. Different printer and your results may vary...

my 2 cents...

[mommalina]

I've had my C60 since '01, and was using OEM's up until mid '02 when I switched to Printpal generics. I see very little if any difference in image quality from OEM. That said, most of my printing is text docs, some color and/or with images, so basically light duty printing.
Whether generics are killing the C60, I dont know, but its still chugging along. Different printer and your results may vary...

my 2 cents...

Rob, the generics work for my light-duty printing also. I think that
may be because I:

- have an older (1999), better-built printer (Epson 740),

- print at least one black and one color item weekly, and

- keep the printer covered and not exposed to low humidity generated by
winter heating or summer air-conditioning.

I usually buy name-brand food items, but I've discovered that some store
brands are occasionally better than the name brand. Same may be true for
generic cartridges. If you have an older printer or cheap new one, what
do you have to lose?


Lina

[jflan]

Hello there,

I am beginning to think that you lead a horse to water but you can’t make it use the right ink.
Please clarify.

I am going to start checking around for the best deal on OEM ink and try to let you guys know about it.
That would be appreciated.

Why kill a printer before it time by using generic inkjet cartridges, its madness I tell you.:der:

Hetzer
Printers are cheap and disposable. It's the ink that is cherished :D

[kern]

Rob, the generics work for my light-duty printing also. I think that may be because I:

- have an older (1999), better-built printer (Epson 740),

- print at least one black and one color item weekly, and

- keep the printer covered and not exposed to low humidity generated by
winter heating or summer air-conditioning.

I usually buy name-brand food items, but I've discovered that some store
brands are occasionally better than the name brand. Same may be true for
generic cartridges. If you have an older printer or cheap new one, what
do you have to lose?

Lina

Lina,
Yep I usually print a letter once a week or so, and I also cover the unit for the same reasons. I guess pampering helps....

As for food, 20 or 30 years ago I avoided 'generics' because they were usually "C" grade quality, but I've found many of todays 'store' brands are equal in quality to 'name' brands- probably because they come from the same Chinese processor.....

[hetzer]

Hello there

Please clarify.
The leading the horse comment was for a friend of mine who has gone threw about six inkjet printers over two years because of his habit of buying the cheapest ink he can. He is very hard headed. :D
That would be appreciated.
So far the best place I have found for HP and Epson OEM ink is Sam’s Club, but you have to have a membership to get in the place and that’s $35 a year. The packs that they sell are for two ink cartridges for the price of one. I will keep my eyes open for other deals.
Printers are cheap and disposable. It's the ink that is cherished :D
And yes I know that printer are now disposable, I just hate the thought of a landfill full of dead printers.:rip:

Hetzer

[hetzer]

Hello

I just thought of another place that may have a good deal on Inkjet Cartridges.

www.Cyberguys.com

enjoy
Hetzer

[kern]

And yes I know that printer are now disposable, I just hate the thought of a landfill full of dead printers.

Hetzer

Many cities and towns have recycling programs that now include electronic items, not to mention programs which allow you to donate old but working electronics to schools, senior programs, etc.

[jflan]

Hello

I just thought of another place that may have a good deal on Inkjet Cartridges.

www.Cyberguys.com

enjoy
Hetzer

At first glance, HP 56/57 pricing is typical :
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchall.asp?search=ink&sort=rev

Here is my neighborhood PC recycler:
http://www.freegeek.org/
We have donated our time and in turn we get some outrageous deals on all sorts of "goodies" .

[kelly]

One of the folks I did work for had an Epson C60. Personally while I was there, I probably printed a few hundred pages of color photographs. After I left, she continued to buy ink for the printer from me. That machine is a workhorse. She always used Epson ink.

[mylanta]

These guys are pretty competitive but I have always bought mine on ebay and probably pay less than most of you do for the "compatibles" that smear your paper and jam up your print heads.
http://www.voltexx.com/