New Computer configuration

[Vivienne]

Hi

Our old computer will no longer play the latest games and so it is time for another one.

I called a computer store that has a good reputation and told them that I wanted a computer that would play games like Half-Life and the following were their suggestions. Before I go ahead and spend $2000, may I please ask you for your comments ?

Case - Sonata with 450 W PS

Motherboard - Intel DQ965GF - they said this was a 'business' board but played games well.

Processor - Intel Core2Duo E6420 - 2.13 Ghz 4MB 1066 MHz

Video Card - Asus GeForce 7600 GS - 512 MB DVI VGA HDTV TVO PCI-E

RAM - Fujitsu 2 GB DDR2 PC-2-5300 667 MHz (2x1 GB) - they said they have been dealing with this company for 20 years and have gotten very good support. It comes with a lifetime warranty.

Hard Drives - WD 250 GB 7200 RPM SATA - two drives. They said they preferred Seagate for the 5 year warranty and have had no problems with them. It was I that insisted on WD.

Monitor - Samsung 19" LCD - 932 BF - not included in the $2000 price.

Your help in choosing a computer would be so very much appreciated!

Vivienne

[Dan18960]

Hi

Our old computer will no longer play the latest games and so it is time for another one.

I called a computer store that has a good reputation and told them that I wanted a computer that would play games like Half-Life and the following were their suggestions. Before I go ahead and spend $2000, may I please ask you for your comments ?

Case - Sonata with 450 W PS

Motherboard - Intel DQ965GF - they said this was a 'business' board but played games well.

Processor - Intel Core2Duo E6420 - 2.13 Ghz 4MB 1066 MHz

Video Card - Asus GeForce 7600 GS - 512 MB DVI VGA HDTV TVO PCI-E

RAM - Fujitsu 2 GB DDR2 PC-2-5300 667 MHz (2x1 GB) - they said they have been dealing with this company for 20 years and have gotten very good support. It comes with a lifetime warranty.

Hard Drives - WD 250 GB 7200 RPM SATA - two drives. They said they preferred Seagate for the 5 year warranty and have had no problems with them. It was I that insisted on WD.

Monitor - Samsung 19" LCD - 932 BF - not included in the $2000 price.

Your help in choosing a computer would be so very much appreciated!

Vivienne

See if they will use an Intel DP965LT motherboard instead - the one they quote has on-board video AND they are quoting an ASUS video card - no need for 2 video connections on the system. PLUS the video on-board EVEN when disabled still "functions" and will reduce the RAM capacity.

I ALWAYS suggest to my clients that they can get a better deal on a monitor by going to Staples, OfficeMax, Office Depot, or several other outlets over what I can provide. Those places are given special pricing and while you are looking you can also see the picture.

See if they can bounce the RAM to 800mhz vs 667 - you can take the money you save getting the monitor "off-site" to enhance the memory speed.

The case is really a personal preference to style / color. I would look at getting a 500w power supply and see the additional cost(s).

Other that those few things - the unit is about right and not that far out of line in cost. I built my current systems which are 975 extreme motherboards and just in parts (no-labor since I built them myself) was in the $1,400.00 area. Add in labor and a "markup" for covering electric, insurance, etc, etc, etc, the $2k is "reasonable".

[Vivienne]

Other that those few things - the unit is about right and not that far out of line in cost. I built my current systems which are 975 extreme motherboards and just in parts (no-labor since I built them myself) was in the $1,400.00 area. Add in labor and a "markup" for covering electric, insurance, etc, etc, etc, the $2k is "reasonable".

Thanks, Dan - much appreciated!!!

Are you okay with the video card ? I read somewhere that is a mistake buying the 'GS' line rather than the 'GT'.

The Sonata comes with 450 W. I shall ask if he would swap it out for a 500 and also ask him about the motherboard and the ram. I'll get the monitor elsewhere.

Thank you again so very much!!!!

Vivienne

[dbarrow]

$2k sounds a bit steep for that and I wouldn't consider it a "gaming machine".
Your budget is sufficient here to get a top notch machine.
If you want to enjoy the latest games to their full potential, build around the top of the line vid card.
Most all of the CoreDuo CPU line will prove more than adequate. All the dual cores handle gaming quite well.
2G of ram is a must for high end gaming these days (as well as any new machine), however; a matched set of Crucial or Corsair with the lowest latency would be my choice.
Yes, 500w PSU (and a good quality one, not what comes supplied with the case) is worthwhile.
2 HD are adequate but check the price and brand. Most of the 300g drives are selling at or about the same price as a 250 these days.

As you are looking at a custom built box, I would first spend some time reading mobo and vid card reviews and cruising all the gaming sites to get a feel of what others are using and recommending.
Also look at many of the sites where they offer custom built "gaming" machines and look at the specs (and prices).

You will find that most of the "local" shops that build tend to put together middle of the road desktop machines with middle of the road desktop parts and tend to stick with mobos and parts they are familiar with. Unless they are familiar with "gaming machines" and custom build them, you may not get that or your monies worth.

In your stated price range, you should be able to get a pretty heavily loaded and top notch machine.
Research thoroughly and spec one out before you shop!

[Vivienne]

Doug:

Thank you for your, as always, very sound advice. I won't rush it like I wanted to. :-) I will do much more research. I'll start off with the website you recommended for the top gaming video cards (Tom's Hardware) and go from there.

Thanks, Doug!

Vivienne

[mylanta]

I agree with Doug that this is a bit high...and while the 7600 is a great card, it is not the best game card where I think you should look at 7950 or 8600 instead or AtI 1900.
Doug, that is an Antec case so it's an exception to the "psu in case" rule, and personally while 500 is better 450 watts is sufficient. For $2000 I would like to see Corsair XMS ram or the top Kingston or crucial ballistics, rather than Fujitsu who while they may have a brand name out there I never saw in ram, surely do not make the ram as the others do.

[Vivienne]

Rich:

Thanks for your reply! I am having a horrible time doing the research. I don't understand a lot of what is being said and when I find a component that someone likes, I find three that don't like it!! I can't stand it!

I know it is a cop out but I just wish that someone would say 'buy the following. ' :-(

I have gone to gaming forums, etc. but the computers these guys have are not really what I need. It does not have to be a real serious gaming machine as it will only be used for the 'sophisticated' gaming once a month or so when my teenaged grandson comes to visit for a weekend. So I'm not even sure if I should call it a gaming computer.

I agree with you about staying with brand names and I will do that for the memory.

I'll keep reading and researching. It looks like buying this computer will take me forever - if I am to totally understand what I am getting. I do not know enough about them to know, at a glance, what is good or not. I am being swayed by one and then three others go 'no, no, no and I'm being swayed the other way!

If I sound depressed, I am! :-) I just wanted Dan, Doug and you to have said - here are the components you should buy.

Well, back to the drawing board!

Thanks!!!

Vivienne

p.s The actual quote for the system including XP PRO and two media drives was $1804 which works out to $1630 US. This is before a 15 percent tax.

[dbarrow]

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/11/system_builder_marathon/

*As usual, Tom's is a good place to start and here is one you want to read through.

Also hit those ATI vid card reviews I posted as there is a lot of discussion in them about power consumption.
All depending on the GPU, 550-650w PSUs may be required to feed your high end vid card(s), particularly with any dual card SLI setup.

You also want to pay close attention to your cooling solution as these cards, and gaming, generate heat like an oven which can become very problematic if not planned for adequately from the start.

[Dan18960]

Ok Viv,

Here goes: (prices are from NewEgg)

Motherboard - Intel DP965LTCK $109.99
Video Card - ASUS EN7950GT/HTDP 512M GeForce 7950GT PCI-x 16 $249.99
Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KSRTL 250gb 7200 SATA $89.99
Case - Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower w/450w psu $99.99
Processor - Intel Core 2 Duo E6420 Conroe 2.13ghz LGA 775 $188.00
RAM - Crucial Ballistix (2x1GB = 2 gb total) DDR2 800 (pc2 6400) $139.99
DVD Drive - LG 18x DVD-/+R DVD Burner w/LightScribe Model GSA-H22L (Dual Layer - 8.5gb storage capacity) $24.99
Floppy Drive - ANY model can be done here (TEAC, Sony, etc) JUST "in case" you need to have one. And for $7 - $10 it doesn't add that much overhead to the overall build.

Just the hardware pricing comes to $910 (rounded) and does not include ANY software. You would have to add the Operating System, Office Suite, and oh yea THE MONITOR!

Now while Doug MAY be questioning the build price - he HAS to understand that the shop providing the build service SHOULD be able to make a profit.

Again, I did build my 3 systems, I paid $1400 +/- for EACH in just parts, and I used some hardware that is different from what I have listed here for you. Example - 2 of the systems have PVR2000 fm/TV cards, have dual LightScribe DVD Dual Layer DVD drives, I have 975 extreme motherboards in each system, I went with 500w psu (I now have 3 450's on the shelf), and Thermaltake cpu cooling fans.

So your "build" price is still quite reasonable and you have a TRUSTED shop doing the work. Like I said previously, the ONLY REAL change would be the motherboard model - the other advice was only suggestions about memory speed and power supply.

[dbarrow]

$1804 which works out to $1630 US
Ok, that is within a reasonable ballpark.

But, I still suggest doing your research and comparing different mobos and vid cards for features.
There may be only a few dollars difference either way where a slightly better version may only add a minimal difference to the overall cost.

You don't say what level of gaming you are looking at.
Casual ... you just want it capable of running the newer ones.

Gamer ... you want to get the full potential that is in the game and someone will be spending a lot of time playing games.

There is a big consideration here.
Casual means you can feed it something new off the shelf and it won't reject you, frame rates are acceptable, and the game won't frustrate you with lags and pauses or slow loads.
Gamer means OMG! knock your socks off graphics that run smooth as silk. Many of the newer games, built for high end platforms, are just that!

When my son decided to build, he was intent on playing a couple games he really enjoys, thus we built around the video card and the games and worked outward from there.
Yes, it does make a difference. I was impressed with the results, even for older technology, and as your average desktop, it's a real screamer!

While current games are "backwards compatible" to run on lesser platforms, they are written within the state of the art for hardware within the last year and you will experience a 50-90% difference in how they look and play on that hardware.

[mylanta]

Viv,
Dan's components, borrowed somewhat from me, are fine for what you need! I agree.

[Vivienne]

Dan, Doug and Rich

Viv,
Dan's components, borrowed somewhat from me, are fine for what you need! I agree.

Dan: Thank you *very* much for the list of components!!!! and thank you, Rich for seconding them! :-) This makes my quest so very much easier as I can now have someplace to start and I have some idea what to look for.

Doug: You are perfectly right that I should learn to research and to understand what I am buying and why. By the time I get my next computer I should know what all the terms mean and how to recognize a good buy. The computer is for *casual* gaming as it is for when my grandson visits overnight and stay a couple of days - once every three weeks. He has that wonderful Dell gaming laptop that you helped me choose the components for and that is his main gaming computer. He doesn't bring it over as his brother loves using it whenever he can. :-)

Anyway, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! I shall now look up the components and learn something. :-) Perhaps I'll even be ready to order one by Wednesday. :-)

Vivienne

[Vivienne]

Hi again

I checked out all the specs and it looks like a great system :-) Thanks very much!!! I priced it on their website and it comes to $1754 - $ 50 cheaper than the one I was quoted this morning. :-)

Just one more question please. I am not sure if I have the memory correct:

This one is from their website:

Crucial BallistiX 1GB PC2-6400 DDR2 Memory Module

Summary DDR2 PC2-6400 • 4-4-4-12 • UNBUFFERED • NON-ECC • DDR2-800 • 2.2V • 128Meg x 64

Is this the one and is it two I should be ordering?

Thanks once again!!

Vivienne

[jflan]

Crucial BallistiX 1GB PC2-6400 DDR2 Memory Module

Summary DDR2 PC2-6400 • 4-4-4-12 • UNBUFFERED • NON-ECC • DDR2-800 • 2.2V • 128Meg x 64



Some of the 965 Intel boards do not like memory voltages above 1.8V...
I would verify with Crucial, the compatibility of that memory with your chosen board.

"As far as the voltage goes, the D965 tech reference is very clear that the motherboard only supports 1.8V memory (although that may have changed
with recent models/BIOS)." rbmorse, Hardwareguys

[Dan18960]

J,

That memory will work fine in the 965 motherboard - btdt:D

[Vivienne]

J,

That memory will work fine in the 965 motherboard - btdt:D

I have a call in to the store to order my computer - I am so excited!!

:-)

Thank you again so very much!

Vivienne

[Vivienne]

jflan:

Some of the 965 Intel boards do not like memory voltages above 1.8V...
I would verify with Crucial, the compatibility of that memory with your chosen board.

Thank you very much for this warning. I checked the manual and you are right as to the voltage not being greater than 1.8V and I quote:

1.4 System Memory
The board has four DIMM sockets and support the following memory features:
• 1.8 V (only) DDR2 SDRAM DIMMs with gold-plated contacts

As to the amount of memory it can take I quote:

• • 8 GB maximum total system memory using DDR2 667 or DDR2 533 DIMMs;
4 GB maximum total system memory using DDR2 800 DIMMs.

I can't foresee ever needing more than 4 GB so that part is not a problem.


Dan:

To be on the safe side, should I just get RAM that fits these parameters ? Crucial gives their recommendations on their configurer. Should I just follow those so that I am not later told that problems stem from the memory I chose ?

Thanks!!!

Vivienne

[mylanta]

I would go with the 800 Viv. By the time you would need more than 4 gig, we will all be on 64 bit where the numbers change anyway. For the life of me I cannot see you ever using more than 2 gig anyway.

[Vivienne]

Rich:

I would go with the 800 Viv. By the time you would need more than 4 gig, we will all be on 64 bit where the numbers change anyway. For the life of me I cannot see you ever using more than 2 gig anyway.

I was more worrried about the voltage. The manual says *only* 1.8V and the 800 has 2.2V. Is that going to be a problem?

Thanks!!!

Vivienne

[Dan18960]

Viv,

I am using the memory listed in all my built systems - they are flying. The extra .4v is not an issue on the motherboard side. Plus the "shop" will test the board before you even get it.

[Vivienne]

Viv,

I am using the memory listed in all my built systems - they are flying. The extra .4v is not an issue on the motherboard side. Plus the "shop" will test the board before you even get it.

Thanks, Dan! I shall leave the specifications the way they are. I expect to hear from the shop today.

You've been a very wonderful help!! Thanks, again.

Vivienne