Choosing between 2 gaming rigs...

[1337RC]

Hey everyone. This is my first post here ... I'm hoping a few of you know a thing or two about gaming PCs. I'm trying to help one of my friends customize a gaming rig (he's got $930 to spend), and I've come up with these two configurations, both $926:

1

PSU - 500W
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ (2.8 GHz) w/ CoolerMaster Aquagate Mini R80 Liquid Cooling Fan
Mobo - Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire Chipset w/ onboard audio
RAM - 1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Corsair XMS2 Xtreme Memory w/ Heat Spreader
Video Cards (Crossfire) - 2 x ATI Radeon X1650 Pro 16X PCI-E 256MB
HDD - Single 250GB SATA-II 7200RPM

OR

2

PSU - 420W
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ (2.4 GHz) w/ standard AMD Athlon 64 CPU fan/heatsink
Mobo - MSI K9N4 SLI-F nForce 500 SLI Chipset w/ onboard audio
RAM - 1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Corsair
Video Card - EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB
HDD - Single 160GB SATA-II 7200RPM

(I could also use the same configuration as rig #2 but with an upgraded mobo, a 580X Crossfire chipset, to get ATI Radeon X1950 Pro Crossfire.)

The PSUs should be fine as they are for each, based on total amperage. Also, same case for each rig (with 4 case fans, 2 120mm and unfortunately 2 80mm), and I'll be wiring everything inside the case to optimize air flow. As far as RAM goes, upgrading to 2GB costs too much, and I figure 1GB will still deliver good gaming performance. Vista Home Premium will be the OS.

Now, my buddy plays World of Warcraft a lot (at high resolutions and for LONG periods of time), but he could care less about sound, so onboard audio should do, the video card being the most important here. Comparing the two, 1 has several advantages such as cooling (liquid, RAM module with heat dissipation), a larger HDD (which is not of much importance), and a better CPU, but I have a feeling 2 will deliver better graphics. Although 1 has Crossfire, the GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB is impressive. So based on graphics, I'm leaning toward rig #2, but I'd still appreciate some other opinions, anything you guys have to say.

Cheers,
RC

[Dudeking]

Being an old World of Warcraft addict I say Drop the HDD to about 80 Gig and get 2Gig of ram!! Honestly, it will be worth it. Maybe even downgrade the CPU, My system for playing wow was Intel Core 2 Duo 2Ghz, 2 Gig ram, Nvida Gforce Go 7200 512mb.

2ghz CPU is plenty for any game, personally I think as long as you have minimum of 2Ghz duel core RAM and Graphics become more important.

[Guest110]

Hello and a big warm welcome to KH
.
We are a friendly bunch and will try to help
with any problems to the best of our ability..

I hope you stick around after your problem is solved
and join the KH experience
I did

[dbarrow]

I would favor the 2g of low latency fast ram.
The "adventure" games store a ton of graphics in memory for the "scenes" and 2g vs 1g does make a big difference.
If that is his addiction, consider a smaller WD Raptor 10000rpm drive just for the game as a second drive.
Read speeds would be important here as well.
Look at gaming sites and forums for reviews and discussion on the SLI dual card setup vs a single card or, if you can, compare the game on a machine with the setups similar to your potential choices. The dual card may be the better choice.
You also want to see reviews on how well the game is playing in Vista ... and maybe choose XP instead.
There are a lot of Warcraft forums out there where you will find the complaints and glitches being talked about.
For a true game addict a few FPS better can make or break you!

[mommalina]

Hey everyone. This is my first post here ... I'm hoping a few of you know a thing or two about gaming PCs.
Cheers,
RC

:welcome: to our forum, 1337RC! ... You have come to the right place!
You will find other Generation Xers and gaming addicts here. We even
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Senior knows about life!

RC, we encourage and appreciate suggestions and comments about our
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Come join us Wednesday night. The camaraderie is great! :tea:

Again, RC, welcome aboard!! .. :grouphug:

Lina

[kern]

PSU - Antec Neo He 500W
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ 2x1M w/ AMD HS and Fan
Mobo - Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire Chipset w/ onboard Audio
RAM - Crucial 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 PC2-6400 CT2KIT12864AA80E
Vid Card - ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 16X PCI-E 512MB (Crossfire)
HDD - Western Digital 160GB SATA-II 16mb Cache 7200RPM

[1337RC]

Hello everyone, thanks for all the welcomes (BlackMirror, mommalina) and the fast responses (Dudeking, dbarrow). I have taken all of your suggestions to mind, and here is what I have come up with, although I'm still not certain:

PSU - 420W
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (2.0 GHz) w/ standard AMD Athlon 64 CPU fan/heatsink
Mobo - Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire Chipset w/ onboard audio
RAM - 1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Corsair XMS2 Xtreme Memory w/ Heat Spreader
Video Cards (Crossfire) - 2 x ATI Radeon X1650 Pro (http://ati.amd.com/products/RadeonX1650/specs.html) 16X PCI-E 256MB
HDD - Single 80GB SATA-II 7200RPM
Data HDD (Gaming) - Western Digital Raptor 36.7GB SATA150 10,000RPM

Again, the PSU should be fine. The CPU is now 2.0 GHz, and there is also an 80GB HDD as well as a smaller 10,000RPM drive. The price of this configuration comes to $908, which is great. The only problem is that I would have liked to upgrade to 2GB RAM, but that brought the price way above the budget.

As far as the video cards go, the single NVIDIA card I believe does outperform this Crossfire configuration, as well as the X1950 Crossfire configuration in some cases, but again using either of those with this rig brought the price above budget.

Vista vs. XP, my buddy insists on having Vista, although I know that some problems arise with WoW there. I am trying to convince him to use XP MCE '05 instead.

Thank you all for your help so far. I would appreciate your thoughts on this as well.

Cheers,
RC

[dbarrow]

Does the PSU come with the case?
If an upgrade on that is only a few bucks, I would get him to go for a 500w to feed those vid cards. The rest is looking really good.

IF... he will have a few bucks extra within a couple months, you may want to get the ram as a 1g stick with plans on adding another one as soon as he can afford it.
But within a short period as you know how fast they change/drop a particular line. Email Corsair and see how long a mate (identical) for a 1g stick will be available.
Over a year and they will likely vanish. 2g is best done with a matched pair of 1g sticks.

[1337RC]

Yes, the PSU comes with the case, but an upgrade costs more than a few bucks, so the 420W will have to do ... Unfortunately, the 1GB RAM will have to stay as well, but I'll be changing the Corsair brand to Mushkin (Xtreme w/ Heat Spreader (http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?id=349)), as it has a lower latency, 4-4-3-10 vs. 5-5-5-12, and for only $2 more. I'm hoping the WD Raptor drive will make up for the lack of the extra RAM.

Well thanks again, sirs. I plan on showing him what we've come up with here and will let you all know how it goes. I also look forward to becoming a more active member here.

Cheers,
RC

[casey]

Are you building this yourself or having someone build it for you.

[1337RC]

I discussed the configuration with him today, and he seems to be happy with it, although a bit disappointed in the downgraded CPU.

Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
1GB (2x512MB) Mushkin XP2-6400 RAM
ATI Radeon X1650 Pro 256MB Crossfire
80GB SATA-II
Western Digital Raptor 36.7GB SATA150

To casey, I plan on building it myself, we're trying to get the best "bang for the buck" as it goes.

Cheers,
RC

[Dudeking]

Hummmm, well TBH where has the money gone that was made from the downgraded CPU? I thought that was going to be spent of RAM? Personally I have used a 10,000 drive only 7,600 and they work fine for me. People that use 10,000 worship them, but I say what you havnt had you cant miss. Go with a normal HDD and get more ram lol

[1337RC]

Well folks, we have a showdown:

Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
1GB (2x512MB) Mushkin XP2-6400 RAM
ATI Radeon X1650 Pro 256MB Crossfire
80GB SATA-II
Western Digital Raptor 36.7GB SATA150

V.S.

Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
2GB (2x1GB) Corsair PC6400 RAM
ATI Radeon X1650 Pro 256MB Crossfire
80GB SATA-II

The second configuration (more RAM) is more expensive but still within the price range.

About the CPU,
My system for playing wow was Intel Core 2 Duo 2Ghz
I'm still a bit worried about this, as Intel Core 2's tend to perform better than AMD X2's, although they are more expensive, so it seems rather unrealistic to say the AMD X2 3800+ will do just because it's 2.0GHz. Thoughts?

[casey]

To casey, I plan on building it myself, we're trying to get the best "bang for the buck" as it goes.




If your building it yourself I would check on the prices you are using. For $900 + you can build a lot better then an AMD X2 3800. For example I believe the MB at
Newegg is around $90 and an 80 Hard drive is around $60. The video card can be bought depending on the brand from $60 to$140 and memory right now is as cheapas it's going to get. I don't know what you figure on a case but a good one shouldn't cost that much.. About the most expensive thing you have on the list is the WD Raptor drive.. I'd say without a monitor you can do this for $650 or less... Let's see some of the prices you have for these things...I guess I shouldn't be doing this but since your building it yourself I'd go for a much better CPU and Memory as you can always add a Raptor drive later as funds become available. Just my $.02..
About all it's worth.

[casey]

Doesn't seem to be a very expensive computer when the main parts sre really priced low.


AMD X2 3800
Original Price: $79.99
You Save: $5.00
$74.99
Free 3 Business Day Sh

ASUS M2A-MVP Socket AM2 AMD 480X CrossFire ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Image Viewer
$84.99
3 Business Day Shipping $6.13
(Not available in HI, AK and PR)
In Stock

2x1GB Kit.
Anyone interested in this memory might want to know there is a 10% off the
$129.99 which brings it down to $116.99 before the $45 rebate or $71.99
final cost which for PC6400 DDR2 is really a good price...Free ground
shipping....

Western Digital Raptor 36 GB Hard Drive $99.99 + $6.43 Ship


Western Digital Caviar 80GB Caviar Sata 3.0 GB/S $42.99 + $5.29 Ship


__________________

[1337RC]

To casey and others, the only problem here is that we plan on getting the parts through one of my buddy's friend's friends (helping him out), a small gamer's shop, so things have to be priced higher and that's unfortunately something we have to work with. Pretty much all of his parts are from iBUYPOWER and CyberPower, Inc. online, amongst others, so I've started to play around with some of the desktops over at CyberPower's site (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/) to try to get an idea of what our options are (the prices over there are probably a bit less than what he's charging, but it will just about even out as he'll be charging us just a bit less as well).

Once I come up with something from there, I'll be able to get the parts from the shop and assemble it myself. It's really a big mess, but you can't do much when you're helping out. At least I'm not the one paying for it :eek:. If anyone finds extra time on their hands, play around with it as well and let me know if you come up with a nice gaming rig under $930. No monitor, keyboard, mouse, and the like are needed ... Right now, I'm trying to work in something better than the Radeon X1650 Pros.

Thanks a lot for the exchanges. Cheers fellas,
RC

[dbarrow]

We all shop extensively online...
At the minimum, we price the identical item on several sites and compare price and shipping costs.
There are also considerations with their RMA and service policy and how quick they can turn around an RMA replacement.
You really do have to calculate the shipping as some online sites will rake you over the coals on shipping. Also on shipping, it all depends on your proximity to their warehouse where standard ground shipping (even if free) may take up to two weeks or as little as 3 days! ie: an online order from ZipZoomFly made before noon may land on my porch the following day with 7 day ground free shipping!

If you ever had to send something back RMA, it pays to know how well they handle this and how good their service department is. I can vouch for ZipZoomFly and Newegg as fast, efficient, and hassle free with courteous phone tech support.

Combine all these factors, especially with a large order with many parts, and the total package can work out to very different prices.
It pays to shop!

[casey]

I do most of my shopping at Newegg and cannot tell you how satisfied I am with the service. Most of the prices I posted came from Newegg and I think you can see that shipping cost were included or posted. The only thing that didn't come from Newegg was the memory which came from Buy.com which I cannot vouch for. I did very little business with them and they do have a very low
reseller rating. In this case I ordered the memory on
May 29th and it was delivered today. Not to shabby as it looks like they may have a warehouse or something in Harrisburg. At least that's where the memory was sent from. I just thought the $900 seemed a little high for an AMD system. Even the WD Raptor is only $99.99 at New egg..

[1337RC]

I would've bought the parts from Newegg as well, but as said, it's a bit unfortunate my buddy insists on helping a friend out for that price. Aside from that, I've played around with everything enough and just can't seem to get 2GB RAM within the budget (without downgrading the video card, which I think should be the most important). I've come up with 5 configurations (attached) but would appreciate others' opinions on which seems to be the best for the money, although they are somewhat hard to compare. The link to the PC with the parts I was working off of is in the txt file as well.

Thanks, cheers.
RC

[Dudeking]

Price: $1014.00
# CAS: ($10 off Mail-in Rebate)Sigma Gaming Orca Mid-Tower 400W Case
# CS_FAN: Default case fans
# CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 4400+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology [+899]
# CD: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) [-9] (BLACK COLOR)
# FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
# HDD: Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives [+18] (160GB (80GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
# MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)MSI K9N4 SLI-F nForce 500 SLI Chipset DDR2/800 SATA-II RAID MBoard w/ Dual 16x PCI-Express
# MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory [+180] (($30 off Mail-in Rebate) Corsair XMS2 Xtreme Memory w/ Heat Spreader [+45])
# NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
# OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium
# POWERSUPPLY: STANDARD CASE POWER SUPPLY
# RUSH: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS
# SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS 24/7 LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
# SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
# USB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
# VIDEO: NEW!!! NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT 256MB 16X PCI Express (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)
# VIDEO2: NEW!!! NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT 256MB 16X PCI Express [+106] (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)


Right! Go with that! Its slightly over but if you can't cope with that put the CPU down to a 4000+

Out of the five you posted I narrowed it down to:-

$923 (before all applicable rebates)
CASE: ($15 off Mail-in Rebate) Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window (BLACK COLOR), Blue Neon Light, 2 Extra Case Cooling Fans
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 3800+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology, AMD Fan & HS
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)MSI K9N4 SLI-F nForce 500 SLI Chipset DDR2/800 SATA-II RAID MBoard w/ Dual 16x PCI-Express
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Mushkin Xtreme w/ Heat Spreader)
VIDEO CARD: NEW!!! NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB 16X PCI Express (EVGA Superclocked Powered by NVIDIA)
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (160GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

V.S.

$927 (before all applicable rebates)
CASE: ($15 off Mail-in Rebate) Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window (BLACK COLOR), Blue Neon Light, 2 Extra Case Cooling Fans
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 4600+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology, AMD Fan & HS
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire Chipset DDR800 Dual PCIE SATA RAID MB w/GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394, & 5.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)1GB (2x512MB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon X1650 Pro 16X PCI-E 256MB VIDEO CARD
VIDEO CARD 2: ATI Radeon X1650 Pro 16X PCI-E 256MB VIDEO CARD
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (80GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: Gaming Hard Drive (10, 000RPM SATA150) (SATA150 - Western Digital Raptor 36.7GB 10, 000RPM 16MB Cache WD360ADFD)
Optical Drive: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

[1337RC]

Or for the first one you narrowed it down to would it be better to downgrade the vid card to a single Geforce 7950 GT 512MB (XFX) and upgrade the HDD to RAID-0 160GB (80GBx2) as well as the CPU to the X2 4600+ (comes to $910)? I'd really like to figure out how to get 2GB RAM within the budget, but it just can't seem to be done ... $931 is too much, it unfortunately must be $930 or less.

RC

[kern]

I'd really like to figure out how to get 2GB RAM within the budget, but it just can't seem to be done ... $931 is too much, it unfortunately must be $930 or less.

RC

difference between 3800+ and 3600+ is minimal, dvd-rom drive, one 80gig harddrive, and ya get the 2gigs of ram, all for $929

CAS: ($15 off Mail-in Rebate) Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window [+16] (BLACK COLOR)
CS_FAN: Default case fans
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 3600+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology
CD: SONY 52X CD-ROM (BLACK COLOR)
FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
HDD: Single Hard Drive (80GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)Asus M2R32-MVP AMD 580X Crossfire Chipset DDR800 Dual PCIE SATA RAID MB w/GbLAN,USB2.0,2xIEEE1394,&7.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium
POWERSUPPLY: STANDARD CASE POWER SUPPLY
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
SPEAKERS: Logitech S100 2.0 Stereo Speaker Set (BLACK COLOR)
VIDEO: ATI Radeon X1950XTX PCI-E x16 512MB VIDEO CARD

PRICE: $929

[1337RC]

Thanks, kern. What does everyone else think about the options so far?

[1337RC]

Hey everyone, I think I may have come across a winner. Let me know what you think:

CASE: ($15 off Mail-in Rebate) Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window (BLACK COLOR), Blue Neon Light, 2 Extra Case Cooling Fans
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 3800+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology, AMD Fan & HS
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)MSI K9N4 SLI-F nForce 500 SLI Chipset DDR2/800 SATA-II RAID MBoard w/ Dual 16x PCI-Express
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: NEW!!! NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB 16X PCI Express (EVGA Powered by NVIDIA)
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives (160GB (80GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

(Based off of the PC here (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/ultraxlc.asp).)

Right around the price mark. I was doing some research and various sources were saying 2 RAID-0 drives outperform a single Raptor, plus it costs less. So thrilled with that. Also, 2GB RAM!!! I think that's necessary for WoW. Fantastic video card as well. The only complaint here is the CPU ... Would you say the X2 3800+ (2.0GHz) makes the system a bit unbalanced? I would again appreciate your input.

Cheers,
RC

[kern]

Hey everyone, I think I may have come across a winner. Let me know what you think:

CASE: ($15 off Mail-in Rebate) Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window (BLACK COLOR), Blue Neon Light, 2 Extra Case Cooling Fans
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 3800+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology, AMD Fan & HS
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)MSI K9N4 SLI-F nForce 500 SLI Chipset DDR2/800 SATA-II RAID MBoard w/ Dual 16x PCI-Express
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: NEW!!! NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB 16X PCI Express (EVGA Powered by NVIDIA)
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives (160GB (80GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

(Based off of the PC here (http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/ultraxlc.asp).)

Right around the price mark. I was doing some research and various sources were saying 2 RAID-0 drives outperform a single Raptor, plus it costs less. So thrilled with that. Also, 2GB RAM!!! I think that's necessary for WoW. Fantastic video card as well. The only complaint here is the CPU ... Would you say the X2 3800+ (2.0GHz) makes the system a bit unbalanced? I would again appreciate your input.

Cheers,
RC

imho the ATI X1950 w/512mb, with the 5200+ /w 1mb cache, is the better combo.

CAS: ($15 off Mail-in Rebate) Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window [-54] (BLACK COLOR)
CS_FAN: Extra Case Cooling Fan [+3] (2 x Fans [+3])
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 5200+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology [+1929]
CD: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) [-9] (BLACK COLOR)
FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
HDD: Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives (160GB (80GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [-200])
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)MSI K9N4 SLI-F nForce 500 SLI Chipset DDR2/800 SATA-II RAID MBoard w/ Dual 16x PCI-Express
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory [+180] (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium
SPEAKERS: Logitech S100 2.0 Stereo Speaker Set [-90]
VIDEO: ATI Radeon X1950XTX PCI-E x16 512MB VIDEO CARD [-172]

PRICE: (+915)

[1337RC]

Over on my end though that's a bit over the budget (only over $10!) ... I could go with that if the processor were X2 3800+ -> X2 4800+, but I see what you're saying. Not sure what else I could sacrifice, either. Thoughts?

[1337RC]

I was actually able to make that work, kern, thanks. I think this may be the way to go, but I'll wait on others to hear their opinions as well. The only issue I have with this configuration is that the 420W is really pushing it, although it can be done. Also, I'm assuming the single ATI card will work fine with the SLI board.

Cheers,
RC

[kern]

Over on my end though that's a bit over the budget (only over $10!) ... I could go with that if the processor were X2 3800+ -> X2 4800+, but I see what you're saying. Not sure what else I could sacrifice, either. Thoughts?

back to your original Asus board.....

Gamer Ultra XLC (NO MONITOR)

CAS: ($15 off Mail-in Rebate) Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window [-54] (BLACK COLOR)
CS_FAN: Extra Case Cooling Fan [+3] (1 x Fan)
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 5200+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology [+1929]
CD: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) [-9] (BLACK COLOR)
FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
HDD: Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives (160GB (80GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [-200])
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire Chipset DDR800 Dual PCIE SATA RAID MB w/GbLAN,USB2.0,IEEE1394,&5.1Audio [-8]
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory [+180] (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium
SPEAKERS: Logitech S100 2.0 Stereo Speaker Set [-90] (BLACK COLOR)
VIDEO: ATI Radeon X1950XTX PCI-E x16 512MB VIDEO CARD [-172]

_PRICE: (+904)

[1337RC]

That's what I was thinking. And what are your thoughts on the PSU?

[kern]

I was actually able to make that work, kern, thanks. I think this may be the way to go, but I'll wait on others to hear their opinions as well. The only issue I have with this configuration is that the 420W is really pushing it, although it can be done. Also, I'm assuming the single ATI card will work fine with the SLI board.

Cheers,
RC

I prefer 500w ps for that configuration, but....

[kern]

That's what I was thinking. And what are your thoughts on the PSU?

500w. Could do it if ya convince him to go with XP Home SP2, which at this point in time is the better os imho...

[1337RC]

My other concern, though. With the 480x mobo, the PCI express drops down to 8x8 support ... is that okay?

[kern]

My other concern, though. With the 480x mobo, the PCI express drops down to 8x8 support ... is that okay?

agreed, but something has to give.....

[1337RC]

Alright, well that works. With XP Home SP2 (which is fine), we can get the 500W. Thanks kern, I think this is good.

CASE: ($15 off Mail-in Rebate) Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window (BLACK COLOR), Blue Neon Light, 2 Extra Case Cooling Fans
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 5200+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology, AMD Fan & HS
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire Chipset DDR800 Dual PCIE SATA RAID MB w/GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394, & 5.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon X1950XTX PCI-E x16 512MB VIDEO CARD
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives (160GB (80GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

The only downside to this is the 480X mobo, but upgrading to the 580X brings the price over budget. Other than this, however, I think it's a good setup.

Let me know what you think.
RC

[Dudeking]

PSU should run that at a push, just don't overclock anything. Maybe take to neon light out...

The CPU, 5200+ seems a bit extreme, Personally I would be tempted to drop it down to a 4400ish and get the Decent Corsair RAM.

But on the whole yeah, its great. A wow player will really see the benefit of 2Gig ram!

[1337RC]

Well it seems I have to change a few things anyway, including downgrading the CPU to the X2 4600+, as some of the rebates on the parts are no longer being offered:

CASE: ($20 off Mail-in Rebate) RaidMax Smilodon Med-Tower 420W Case w/ Side-Panel Window, Blue Neon Light, 1 Extra Case Cooling Fan (1 120mm front, 1 80mm rear, 1 80mm LED side, 1 80mm side)
PSU: 500 Watts Power Supplies (Ultra V-Series 500 Watts ATX PSU (Black))
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 4600+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology, AMD Fan & HS
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire Chipset DDR800 Dual PCIE SATA RAID MB w/GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394, & 5.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon X1950XTX PCI-E x16 512MB VIDEO CARD
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives (160GB (80GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
OS: XP Home

Thoughts? ...

[1337RC]

Or with this configuration we could downgrade the CPU again to the X2 3800+ (too unbalanced?) to be able to upgrade to the Asus M2R32-MVP AMD 580X Crossfire mobo, or keep the same 480X mobo (which has its downside as well) and upgrade the 2GB RAM to the 2GB Mushkin "Xtreme w/ Heat Spreader" (lower latency), about the same price as the setup in the previous post but with the X2 3800+ ...

RC

[kern]

Well it seems I have to change a few things anyway, including downgrading the CPU to the X2 4600+, as some of the rebates on the parts are no longer being offered:

CASE: ($20 off Mail-in Rebate) RaidMax Smilodon Med-Tower 420W Case w/ Side-Panel Window, Blue Neon Light, 1 Extra Case Cooling Fan (1 120mm front, 1 80mm rear, 1 80mm LED side, 1 80mm side)
PSU: 500 Watts Power Supplies (Ultra V-Series 500 Watts ATX PSU (Black))
CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 4600+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology, AMD Fan & HS
MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire Chipset DDR800 Dual PCIE SATA RAID MB w/GbLAN, USB2.0, IEEE1394, & 5.1Audio
MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
VIDEO CARD: ATI Radeon X1950XTX PCI-E x16 512MB VIDEO CARD
VIDEO CARD 2: NONE
LCD Monitor: NONE
HARD DRIVE: Extreme Performance (RAID-0) with 2 Identical Hard Drives (160GB (80GBx2) SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)
Data Hard Drive: NONE
Optical Drive: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) (BLACK COLOR)
Optical Drive 2: NONE
SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
OS: XP Home

Thoughts? ...

Or with this configuration we could downgrade the CPU again to the X2 3800+ (too unbalanced?) to be able to upgrade to the Asus M2R32-MVP AMD 580X Crossfire mobo, or keep the same 480X mobo (which has its downside as well) and upgrade the 2GB RAM to the 2GB Mushkin "Xtreme w/ Heat Spreader" (lower latency), about the same price as the setup in the previous post but with the X2 3800+ ...

RC

that sounds good- Asus 580X, low latency ram, and whatever cash he has left get the best cpu he can afford around ~4200+...

[1337RC]

Can't go for all three though kern. 1) Upgrade the mobo, 2) Upgrade the RAM. Those are the two options here IF the CPU is downgraded to the 3800+. What would you say is better, upgrading the mobo or the RAM?

[1337RC]

Also, what might be the downside to downgrading the optical drive from the 16X DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo drive to the 16X DVD ROM drive? It saves 12 bucks ...

[Dudeking]

It can't burn cd's

I would say the RAM upgrade, mobo won't make much of a difference.

[kern]

I agree with Eddie- upgrade the ram, and if he doesnt intend to burn cd's dvd-rom drive is fine.

[1337RC]

So what do you boys think of this?

Case - Sigma Gaming Shark (http://www.chiefvalue.com/product-_-productdetails.cv_-_linkid--111&item--11-226-003) (type W)
Blue Neon Light
Default case fans (see link)
PSU - Ultra V-Series 500 Watts ATX (http://www.ultraproducts.com/product_details.php?cPath=59&pPath=369&productID=369)
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (2.2GHz w/ 2x512KB L2 cache) (http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/details.aspx?opn=ADA4200IAA5CU)
AMD Fan & HS
Mobo - Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3069880&Sku=A455-2354&SRCCODE=CNETFEED&CMP=OTC-CNETFEED) Crossfire Chipset
RAM – 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Mushkin Xtreme (http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?id=350) (w/ Heat Spreader)
Video Card – Single ATI Radeon X1950XTX 512MB (http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/radeonx1950xtx/specs.html)
HDD – 160GB (2x80GB) RAID-0 SATA-II 7200RPM
DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo Drive
Onboard Audio
XP Home XP2

Thanks a lot,
RC

[1337RC]

Then again, I've also heard there won't be much of a difference with the timings of the Mushkins, so a more powerful CPU = better performance. Also, here' (http://www.techspot.com/reviews/hardware/corsair_xms_vs_value_select/xms_vs_value-4.shtml)s an interesting article on Corsair Value Select vs. XMS. So in that case, I'd go for this rig:

Case - Sigma Gaming Shark (type W)
Blue Neon Light
Default case fans
PSU - Ultra V-Series 500 Watts ATX
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ (2.6GHz w/ 2x1MB L2 cache)
AMD Fan & HS
Mobo - Asus M2A-MVP AMD 480X Crossfire Chipset
RAM – 2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Corsair Value Select
Video Card – Single ATI Radeon X1950XTX 512MB
HDD – 160GB (2x80GB) RAID-0 SATA-II 7200RPM
DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo Drive
Onboard Audio
XP Home XP2

Let me know what your thoughts are on this, and thanks again for bearing with me ... :D

Cheers,
RC

[Dudeking]

Thanks for that link. Well I would say defiantly go with the second one then. Looks like an extreme gaming machine to me!!

[1337RC]

I appreciate everyone's help! I'll be showing this to him today, and I'm sure he'll be quite happy with it.

Cheers,
RC

[Dudeking]

No Problem RC. I hope you stay with us here on Kicken Hardware in the future, it's a great community which I know you would enjoy!

I think your friend will be incredibly satisfied with that system, I know I would be.

[1337RC]

that sounds good- Asus 580X, low latency ram, and whatever cash he has left get the best cpu he can afford around ~4200+...
I brought up some of the low points to the previous config when discussing it with him, so he wanted me to see if I could "remedy" some of them ... What do you think of this?

Either the Xion III Onyx (http://www.directron.com/xiononyx.html) or Thermaltake Bach VX (http://www.directron.com/vf4000bws.html) Chassis, Blue Neon Light, Default Case Fans
Xion 500W (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2477934&CatId=1079) ATX PSU
AMD Athlon™64 X2 4400+ (http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/details.aspx?opn=ADO4400IAA5DD) Dual Core, Standard AMD Fan & HS
ECS KA3 MVP (http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?detailid=659&DetailName=Specification&MenuID=1&LanID=0) AMD 580X Crossfire Chipset
2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2 800 Corsair XMS2 RAM (http://www.cooltechpc.com/c/ctpc/std/sku=2GB_Corsair_PC6400.html)
Single ATI Radeon X1950 XTX (http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/radeonx1950xtx/specs.html) 512MB
Single 160GB SATA-II 7200RPM HDD
16X DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo Drive
Onboard Audio
XP Home SP2

I know the CPU was downgraded (what do you think would be better, 4400+ or 4600+, did research saying 4400+ b/c of larger l2 cache but from what I'm seeing it's the same), also no longer RAID (but there were reliability issues with that anyway, and I believe there were only slight performance increases), but I think RAM is more important for WoW, plus the better mobo (what do you think of ECS?). Also, I would appreciate any comments on Xion PSUs...

Cheers,
RC

[1337RC]

The only problem with all the Crossfire mobos is that they don't support SATA-II...only the SLI boards do, and all the HDDs are SATA-II.

[casey]

Stay away from ECS....

[kern]

I brought up some of the low points to the previous config when discussing it with him, so he wanted me to see if I could "remedy" some of them ... What do you think of this?

Either the Xion III Onyx (http://www.directron.com/xiononyx.html) or Thermaltake Bach VX (http://www.directron.com/vf4000bws.html) Chassis, Blue Neon Light, Default Case Fans
Xion 500W (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2477934&CatId=1079) ATX PSU
AMD Athlon™64 X2 4400+ (http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/details.aspx?opn=ADO4400IAA5DD) Dual Core, Standard AMD Fan & HS
ECS KA3 MVP (http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?detailid=659&DetailName=Specification&MenuID=1&LanID=0) AMD 580X Crossfire Chipset
2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2 800 Corsair XMS2 RAM (http://www.cooltechpc.com/c/ctpc/std/sku=2GB_Corsair_PC6400.html)
Single ATI Radeon X1950 XTX (http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/radeonx1950xtx/specs.html) 512MB
Single 160GB SATA-II 7200RPM HDD
16X DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo Drive
Onboard Audio
XP Home SP2

I know the CPU was downgraded (what do you think would be better, 4400+ or 4600+, did research saying 4400+ b/c of larger l2 cache but from what I'm seeing it's the same), also no longer RAID (but there were reliability issues with that anyway, and I believe there were only slight performance increases), but I think RAM is more important for WoW, plus the better mobo (what do you think of ECS?). Also, I would appreciate any comments on Xion PSUs...

Cheers,
RC

The only problem with all the Crossfire mobos is that they don't support SATA-II...only the SLI boards do, and all the HDDs are SATA-II.

Not true- Crossfire 480X and 580X chipsets both support SATA 3.0g.

As for the latest selection, I'd avoid ECS and go with an Asus- 480x or 580x.

At this level, the cpu wont make all that much difference- you could save another $20 going with a 4000+ w/ 2x1mb cache, and use the savings on an Antec power supply--> Neo HE, Earthwatts 500w, or True Power II 480w (all around $90-$100), although at this point I think the 420w will be ok with this setup:

# CAS: ($20 off Mail-in Rebate) Xion III Gaming Mid-Tower 420W Case with Side Window [-54] (BLACK COLOR)
# CS_FAN: Default case fans
# CPU: (Socket AM2) AMD Athlon™64 X2 4400+ Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology [+1889]
# CD: COMBO DRIVE (16X DVD-ROM & 52x32x52 CD-RW) [-9] (BLACK COLOR)
# FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK
# HDD: Single Hard Drive [-238] (160GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD [+14])
# MOTHERBOARD: (Socket AM2)Asus M2R32-MVP AMD 580X Crossfire Chipset DDR800 Dual PCIE SATA RAID MB w/GbLAN,USB2.0,2xIEEE1394,&7.1Audio [+40]
# MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory [+180] (Corsair Value Select or Major Brand)
# OS: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition w/ Service Pack 2 [-15]
# VIDEO: ATI Radeon X1950XTX PCI-E x16 512MB VIDEO CARD [-172]
# _PRICE: $865

[1337RC]

Not true- Crossfire 480X and 580X chipsets both support SATA 3.0g.
I just realized that a little while after I posted..:). Thanks.

Based on the setup you suggested, here's what I've come up with (we're getting things a tad cheaper on our end):

Xion III Onyx (http://www.xionusa.com/Product-case-XionONYX.asp) Chassis
Blue Neon Light
Xion SuperNova 600W PSU (http://www.xionusa.com/images/product/PS/600W-SuperNova/Xion_Sueprnova_600W__Sales_Tool.jpg)
AMD Athlon™64 X2 4400+ (http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/details.aspx?opn=ADO4400IAA5DD) Dual Core, Standard AMD Fan & HS
Asus M2R32-MVP (http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=101&l3=328&model=1296&modelmenu=1) AMD 580X Crossfire Chipset
2GB (2x1GB) Corsair Value Select PC6400 DDR2/800 RAM (latency 5-5-5-18 ?)
Single ATI Radeon X1950 XTX (http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/radeonx1950xtx/specs.html) 512MB
Single 160GB SATA-II 7200RPM HDD
16X DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo Drive
Onboard Audio
XP Home SP2

On a scale of 1-10, how's the rig for the $$? I know the CPU's not the best, but I'm glad it's 65nm, and as was mentioned, I think RAM and the vid card are the most important here. As for RAID, I believe it only offers a slight performance increase, and for less of a price and more reliability I think the single HDD will be fine. Also from various sites I've been reading that upgrading from Value Select RAM is not worth it for the small performance increase and the higher cost.

Thanks a lot for the help!

Cheers,
RC

[kern]

Based on the setup you suggested, here's what I've come up with (we're getting things a tad cheaper on our end):

Xion III Onyx Chassis
Blue Neon Light
Xion SuperNova 600W PSU
AMD Athlon™64 X2 4400+ Dual Core, Standard AMD Fan & HS
Asus M2R32-MVP[/URL] AMD 580X Crossfire Chipset
2GB (2x1GB) Corsair Value Select PC6400 DDR2/800 RAM
Single ATI Radeon X1950 XTX 512MB
Single 160GB SATA-II 7200RPM HDD
16X DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo Drive
Onboard Audio
XP Home SP2

On a scale of 1-10, how's the rig for the $$? I know the CPU's not the best, but I'm glad it's 65nm, and as was mentioned, I think RAM and the vid card are the most important here. As for RAID, I believe it only offers a slight performance increase, and for less of a price and more reliability I think the single HDD will be fine. Also from various sites I've been reading that upgrading from Value Select RAM is not worth it for the small performance increase and the higher cost.

Thanks a lot for the help!

Cheers,
RC

imho, 600w ps is overkill, and a cpu with 2x1mb L2 cache is preferred (4000+ and 4400+ are available w 2x1mb L2), and 2g of any ram is better than 1g, but given the $$$ limit, this is a dam good gaming rig!
As for Raid, Raid 0 does have better performance since it makes one logical drive out of two physical drives, which allows for faster read and write. Only downside besides cost, is if 1 drives fails you lose everything on all drives...